New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

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showman
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by showman »

pommy wrote:Hi Brent,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, Korey and I are chatting via email as we speak - I'm sure we can figure something out.

When I made up the Infinity, I made it up so that it didn't drip as per the video Korey sent - So I guess it's my technique that needs improving.

In response to your "Crystal Clear" let me errm "clear" that comment up!...The lights that I restore are hardly ever ALL yellow, 80% of them are one quarter or a third from the top damaged only - thus leaving the remainder like a new light.

As you know, in order to restore them, the whole lot has to come off, not just the top damaged bit. When I sand the whole light back and follow the process to the letter - the result is nothing like the original - it's cloudier and has a milky tint to it - I've tried to capture it and sent a couple of pics to Korey.

As it stands, there is no way I can charge a customer for the work and I would definitely turn away any business on new cars due to the results.

It's concerning as I just moved to Delta Kits - but like I said, I'm sure there will be an answer ;)

I hate putting this info on a forum - I LOVE my WSR kit, it's perfect!

Hey Pommy,

I realize this is a couple of months old posts but I'm new to the forum and the biz.. I ran across the exact same problem yesterday while working on a infinity M35. Only half of the light needed restored and the other half was like new, after I finished all the steps the like new section was no where as clear as it was prior to sanding actually the whole light was missing the wow factor but the customer was happy prob because the light looked more even and clearer bc of the damage being removed. I for one was very discourage. I've done abt 10 lights and really was expecting this to be one of my best and it came out as the worst in my opinion. I even told the customer she can just pay me half but she insisted on paying the whole amount because of how hard she seen me work and the fact that it still looked better then it did before.. Even called me today to tell me she got compliments on it from family members who knew what it looked like before and how much she appreciated the work I put into it.. GO Figure!! I don't know if I did not apply enough pressure or maybe to much or is it something with these newer cars.. It made me not want to mess with newer high end cars until I figure out why this is so... I would appreciate any insight on this that you might have came across..
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pommy
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Re: New Headlight Restoration Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by pommy »

Hi Showman - Happy New Year!

I'm STILL trying to find the best method for the HLR - but I think I have just about got there...

I've tried all types of kits and methods - let me share my findings with you, they make my job easier - so maybe they can help you.

Ok, the main areas which I feel were not up to the job are:

1. The obital sander - Although it is fast and easy to remove the poly coating, it leaves scratches in the lens and you can't polish with it either. (I polish the lens). I changed to a cordless lithium-ion polisher/sander which does both.

2. The sanding discs - I changed the discs to "wet" discs and also the grading of the discs to 400, 600, 1200 (and I have a 1500 for tricky ones) - And I use a polishing compound to make the lens clear as glass.

Rememeber - the Infinity is ONLY a sealer and will seal in the prepared surface, NOT improve it - so it HAS to be crystal clear before you apply it. (I, like you - have very high standards). I changed to "wet" discs because I found the dry sanding to be "cloggy" and also, if they get wet they fall apart. When doing the lens, I dry sand at first, then I use water to wash off and a quick final sand when still wet. Then I repeat with the next grade of disc until I get to the hazy lens we are after. Then the polish comes out!

3. Power!!! - I hate plugs and leads and cords and adaptors etc etc - you get the idea! So I just went CORDLESS - WOW! I have a 12v Hair dryer and a Lithium-Ion hand held polisher/sander - I can walk right up to the car in a lot, with one tool box, no set up of wires and get right into it. It truly is liberating - ha ha!

I know other people have opinions, and these are just mine. I AM a perfectionist and I don't like doing and "acceptable" job. MY lights have to be perfect or as near as possible.

Again, I must say that most of my lenses are not like they show in videos - yellow and crusty - they are normally in perfect condition for half (top normally, sometimes bottom) and the other half is "peeling" , "eroding" , "flaking" away - and not yellow at all in most cases.

When doing a newer lens - the WOW factor is lost when compared to doing the yellow ones, because ANYTHING would look better than before - know what I mean?

Don't stress - They ARE tricky to do, 95% of the scratches have to be gone before you seal it, or they look scratched.

I think you are doing nothing wrong, as such, but I do suggest you get a 3000 grit polishing compound and do away with the 3000 polishing discs as I found them useless.

Cheers,

Pommy
If the job doesn't mean more than the pay, it will never pay more.
showman
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Re: New Headlight Restoration Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by showman »

pommy wrote:Hi Showman - Happy New Year!

I'm STILL trying to find the best method for the HLR - but I think I have just about got there...

I've tried all types of kits and methods - let me share my findings with you, they make my job easier - so maybe they can help you.

Ok, the main areas which I feel were not up to the job are:

1. The obital sander - Although it is fast and easy to remove the poly coating, it leaves scratches in the lens and you can't polish with it either. (I polish the lens). I changed to a cordless lithium-ion polisher/sander which does both.

2. The sanding discs - I changed the discs to "wet" discs and also the grading of the discs to 400, 600, 1200 (and I have a 1500 for tricky ones) - And I use a polishing compound to make the lens clear as glass.

Rememeber - the Infinity is ONLY a sealer and will seal in the prepared surface, NOT improve it - so it HAS to be crystal clear before you apply it. (I, like you - have very high standards). I changed to "wet" discs because I found the dry sanding to be "cloggy" and also, if they get wet they fall apart. When doing the lens, I dry sand at first, then I use water to wash off and a quick final sand when still wet. Then I repeat with the next grade of disc until I get to the hazy lens we are after. Then the polish comes out!

3. Power!!! - I hate plugs and leads and cords and adaptors etc etc - you get the idea! So I just went CORDLESS - WOW! I have a 12v Hair dryer and a Lithium-Ion hand held polisher/sander - I can walk right up to the car in a lot, with one tool box, no set up of wires and get right into it. It truly is liberating - ha ha!

I know other people have opinions, and these are just mine. I AM a perfectionist and I don't like doing and "acceptable" job. MY lights have to be perfect or as near as possible.

Again, I must say that most of my lenses are not like they show in videos - yellow and crusty - they are normally in perfect condition for half (top normally, sometimes bottom) and the other half is "peeling" , "eroding" , "flaking" away - and not yellow at all in most cases.

When doing a newer lens - the WOW factor is lost when compared to doing the yellow ones, because ANYTHING would look better than before - know what I mean?

Don't stress - They ARE tricky to do, 95% of the scratches have to be gone before you seal it, or they look scratched.

I think you are doing nothing wrong, as such, but I do suggest you get a 3000 grit polishing compound and do away with the 3000 polishing discs as I found them useless.

Cheers,

Pommy

WOW!!!

You have definitely gave me a lot to think abt.. Please disregard my other post where I ask why you no longer use the sanding obital. I asked the questing prior to reading your reply to this post where u basically answered my question. Yes the scratches the sander leaves was driving me crazy and I thought maybe I wasn't using enough pressure to sand them out but in general I was still getting that wow factor because of the c2p so I wasn't to discourage, but like you I'm a perfectionist with this type of stuff, this is why I don't wash my own car because I'll never finish.. HAHA!! I hate cords also I'm running around with a 100 ft cord and actually had to reschedule a few HLR for lack of a power outlet..

How long is this new method taking you to complete a set of lenses?? Also have you tried this method on the more extreme cases of lenses or is this method basically better on less severe cases?

In general the polishing disc did ok on most of the cars I did but that Infinity M35 car just really discouraged me. The polishing disc did absolutely nothing.

I was thinking abt getting a polishing compound but I'm a bit confused because I've seen post where ppl are saying the c2p are any UV clear won't stick to it. What is your experience with that dilemma?

Sorry for all the questions, like you I'm just trying to find the right combination. I hate not giving my customers the quality of work that I expect to get if I was them..
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by showman »

HaHa!! Oh and Happy New Year to you also... Almost forgot... :lol:
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by Brent Deines »

Hey guys, we've been doing a great deal of testing every day for months now, trying to figure out why some are getting different results than others using the same products and procedures. Most of our customers are getting amazing results, just like we are in our own shop, but some of you are reporting that you are not getting the desired clarity before the Infinity 4.1 is applied.

We've literally tested hundreds of different combinations of sanding discs, power tools and coatings, and we've had 6 different technicians doing the testing to make sure our results are consistent. I'll try to get an email out to those of you who have expressed your dissatisfaction with the results this week as I think we have found a very minor variation to our sanding process that will produce more consistent results for "every" technician. If you are already getting the results you desire using other methods this may not be of interest to you, but if you want to use the random orbital tool only, without wet sanding or using polish, and you want to use the Infinity 4.1, I think you be very happy with this solution.

By the way, thank you very much for all your feedback. As much as I hate to receive negative feedback, that's what keeps us searching for better products and procedures. In this case all the hours and dollars spent on research and testing have definitely paid off.

Feel free to call or email me if you don't hear from me this week.
Brent Deines
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by pommy »

"...the scratches the sander leaves was driving me crazy and I thought maybe I wasn't using enough pressure to sand them out"

I found that for me, the polishing discs didn't restore the clarity I needed. No matter how many I used and what pressure (I tried them with a drill and a Makita polisher as well as the orbital).

"...in general I was still getting that wow factor because of the c2p so I wasn't to discouraged"

And you may well - because the C2P is also a better filler than the Infinity I use. But on the newer clear lenses, with only worn poly - not yellowing - it all comes down to the prep before the coating is added, so I use a polish.

"I hate cords also I'm running around with a 100 ft cord and actually had to reschedule a few HLR for lack of a power outlet.."

I use 2 x lithium ion batteries - I'd would only ever do 3 sets in one day at most - and I just get onto the second battery finishing the 3rd set. I'd never go back to power. Plus the batteries have a 30 min charge.

"How long is this new method taking you to complete a set of lenses?? Also have you tried this method on the more extreme cases of lenses or is this method basically better on less severe cases?"

About 45 mins to 1 hour - it really depends, but no more normally. Extreme cases are much easier to do - straight in with the 400 and once the poly has been removed completely, it's plain sailing - plus the WOW factor is ALWAYS there when they go from yellow to clear. It's clear to clearer that is the time consumer ;)

"In general the polishing disc did ok on most of the cars I did but that Infinity M35 car just really discouraged me. The polishing disc did absolutely nothing."

I'm now thinking that previous cars you've done actually relied on the "filling" effect of the C2P. The Infinity is different and won't fill anything, only add shine and protect. I have to have the finish almost perfect before the coat goes on.

"I was thinking abt getting a polishing compound but I'm a bit confused because I've seen post where ppl are saying the c2p are any UV clear won't stick to it. What is your experience with that dilemma?"

I was aware of the peeling potential and so I tested this out many times. Once cured - I couldn't remove the Infinity, even with a SCREWDRIVER after applying it to a polished lens. It had fully bonded and the acrylic just scored with the screwdriver, like it should - no peeling or cracking.

"I hate not giving my customers the quality of work that I expect to get if I was them.."

Couldn't have said it better myself!
If the job doesn't mean more than the pay, it will never pay more.
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by candyman »

Good morning guys. Sometimes I will use Delta's wax polish in lieu of the 3000 foam pad. I get a better finished product. I am finding that I have to enure the lens is smooth and clearer prior to using the infiniti 4.1. Like pommy mentioned its not designed to fill small scratches like the chemical base UV coating. Showman, make sure the lens is cleaned good prior to using either coating. I have done vehicles that had one new lens an a old lens. I get the WOW factor but it dont always look as good as the new lens. Sometimes I may do a lens that has only a little fogging at the top and the bottom looks new. I use an orbital sander and sand the entire lens . When it looks universal I stop stripping it. I start out with a 320 grit dry pad: ( if its very hard I start with a 180) I then use a 600 grit, then a 1500 grit. I will use either a 3000 foam pad or Polish depending on the lens and what the surface looks like after I use the 1500 pad. Make sure you use the prep spray after sanding, to ensure it is completely clean, and flush with lots of water. Iam still getting use to the infiniti 4.1 If I have a rear light or a fog light lens that is faded I will use the Chemical base UV coating. The reason is simple. It gives a better shine and seals any small blimishes. I normally see this type of lens on old pick-up trucks and cadilacs. I didnt want to stock two typest of UV coating, however I now see a need to do so. I use an orbital sander from delta. If I could find one that has a battery pack I would switch. I dont want to use a rotary drill or buffer polisher due to the fact it can burn a hole in the lens quickly if you are not very carefull. I dont want to shell out a few hundred dollars replacing someones lens. I had a customer that used a car polisher on his lens and he burned the lens. He called me after he discovered the replacement would be over $300. I was able to smooth it out and it had the WOW factor afterward. Please note that most of the time I only use the prep spray and wax polish for rear lenses. It only takes about 5 minutes to do them and the customer is satisfied with the end results. I get the WOW factor with the majority of the restorations that I do regardless if the lens is newer or a old faded lens. If you are not seeing a WOW factor on the majority of your WSR jobs something is not being done correctly.
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by showman »

Brent Deines wrote:Hey guys, we've been doing a great deal of testing every day for months now, trying to figure out why some are getting different results than others using the same products and procedures. Most of our customers are getting amazing results, just like we are in our own shop, but some of you are reporting that you are not getting the desired clarity before the Infinity 4.1 is applied.

We've literally tested hundreds of different combinations of sanding discs, power tools and coatings, and we've had 6 different technicians doing the testing to make sure our results are consistent. I'll try to get an email out to those of you who have expressed your dissatisfaction with the results this week as I think we have found a very minor variation to our sanding process that will produce more consistent results for "every" technician. If you are already getting the results you desire using other methods this may not be of interest to you, but if you want to use the random orbital tool only, without wet sanding or using polish, and you want to use the Infinity 4.1, I think you be very happy with this solution.

By the way, thank you very much for all your feedback. As much as I hate to receive negative feedback, that's what keeps us searching for better products and procedures. In this case all the hours and dollars spent on research and testing have definitely paid off.

Feel free to call or email me if you don't hear from me this week.
Thanks Brent,


I'll be looking forward to that email to see what you guys have came up with...
showman
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by showman »

pommy wrote:"...the scratches the sander leaves was driving me crazy and I thought maybe I wasn't using enough pressure to sand them out"

I found that for me, the polishing discs didn't restore the clarity I needed. No matter how many I used and what pressure (I tried them with a drill and a Makita polisher as well as the orbital).

"...in general I was still getting that wow factor because of the c2p so I wasn't to discouraged"

And you may well - because the C2P is also a better filler than the Infinity I use. But on the newer clear lenses, with only worn poly - not yellowing - it all comes down to the prep before the coating is added, so I use a polish.

"I hate cords also I'm running around with a 100 ft cord and actually had to reschedule a few HLR for lack of a power outlet.."

I use 2 x lithium ion batteries - I'd would only ever do 3 sets in one day at most - and I just get onto the second battery finishing the 3rd set. I'd never go back to power. Plus the batteries have a 30 min charge.

"How long is this new method taking you to complete a set of lenses?? Also have you tried this method on the more extreme cases of lenses or is this method basically better on less severe cases?"

About 45 mins to 1 hour - it really depends, but no more normally. Extreme cases are much easier to do - straight in with the 400 and once the poly has been removed completely, it's plain sailing - plus the WOW factor is ALWAYS there when they go from yellow to clear. It's clear to clearer that is the time consumer ;)

"In general the polishing disc did ok on most of the cars I did but that Infinity M35 car just really discouraged me. The polishing disc did absolutely nothing."

I'm now thinking that previous cars you've done actually relied on the "filling" effect of the C2P. The Infinity is different and won't fill anything, only add shine and protect. I have to have the finish almost perfect before the coat goes on.

"I was thinking abt getting a polishing compound but I'm a bit confused because I've seen post where ppl are saying the c2p are any UV clear won't stick to it. What is your experience with that dilemma?"

I was aware of the peeling potential and so I tested this out many times. Once cured - I couldn't remove the Infinity, even with a SCREWDRIVER after applying it to a polished lens. It had fully bonded and the acrylic just scored with the screwdriver, like it should - no peeling or cracking.

"I hate not giving my customers the quality of work that I expect to get if I was them.."

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Hey Pommy,


Once again your insight on all of this is truly appreciated. With the polish that you use how long does it take to cure. Also while applying the polish do you just apply it by hand and thats it, or do you also use some type of buffer pad or the polishing disc along with it??
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Re: New Headlight Restoratin Kit With Infinity 4.1

Post by showman »

candyman wrote:Good morning guys. Sometimes I will use Delta's wax polish in lieu of the 3000 foam pad. I get a better finished product. I am finding that I have to enure the lens is smooth and clearer prior to using the infiniti 4.1. Like pommy mentioned its not designed to fill small scratches like the chemical base UV coating. Showman, make sure the lens is cleaned good prior to using either coating. I have done vehicles that had one new lens an a old lens. I get the WOW factor but it dont always look as good as the new lens. Sometimes I may do a lens that has only a little fogging at the top and the bottom looks new. I use an orbital sander and sand the entire lens . When it looks universal I stop stripping it. I start out with a 320 grit dry pad: ( if its very hard I start with a 180) I then use a 600 grit, then a 1500 grit. I will use either a 3000 foam pad or Polish depending on the lens and what the surface looks like after I use the 1500 pad. Make sure you use the prep spray after sanding, to ensure it is completely clean, and flush with lots of water. Iam still getting use to the infiniti 4.1 If I have a rear light or a fog light lens that is faded I will use the Chemical base UV coating. The reason is simple. It gives a better shine and seals any small blimishes. I normally see this type of lens on old pick-up trucks and cadilacs. I didnt want to stock two typest of UV coating, however I now see a need to do so. I use an orbital sander from delta. If I could find one that has a battery pack I would switch. I dont want to use a rotary drill or buffer polisher due to the fact it can burn a hole in the lens quickly if you are not very carefull. I dont want to shell out a few hundred dollars replacing someones lens. I had a customer that used a car polisher on his lens and he burned the lens. He called me after he discovered the replacement would be over $300. I was able to smooth it out and it had the WOW factor afterward. Please note that most of the time I only use the prep spray and wax polish for rear lenses. It only takes about 5 minutes to do them and the customer is satisfied with the end results. I get the WOW factor with the majority of the restorations that I do regardless if the lens is newer or a old faded lens. If you are not seeing a WOW factor on the majority of your WSR jobs something is not being done correctly.

Hey Candyman,

Thanks for your insight on this matter. Yes for the most part I was getting the WOW factor, but I had never done a newer car until a couple of days ago and in that case I didn't get it. The car still looked good and the customer was happy but compared to the older cars I've done (2000-2006) it just didn't compare. The care I most recently did was a 2007-2008 Infinity M35 sedan. Only half of the car lenses was discolored and the bottom looked brand new. When doing the older cars the 3000 polishing disc actually worked for me but with this one it did basically nothing. It was totally missing that WOW factor.

I was wondering just like I asked Pommy, are you finding any problems with the infinity clear or C2P not sticking to the lenses when you use the polish? One more thing are you just applying the polish by hand or are you using the orbital with some type of buffing pad to apply it. Thanks again for your input..
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