New to the business
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Re: New to the business
Besides all the good points already mentioned previously in this topic.... why adding another moisture in order to remove the original moisture?
I was told at my initial training (GW) that the ''moisture removal liquid'' (alcohol) would be helping in ''watering down'' the moisture as present in the damage.
It was believed that this would speed up the moisture removal process, some fifteen years ago that was a common thought. To me, it never made any sense to introduce even more moisture into the damage....especially after the 12 Volt Moisture Evaporator (like they called it at GW, the original name is Drystar) was introduced.
Again; Why would anybody want to use a ''moisture removing substance'' (be it alcohol or any other fluid) to remove the moisture? It became totally obsolete, why not using the Drystar?
I was told at my initial training (GW) that the ''moisture removal liquid'' (alcohol) would be helping in ''watering down'' the moisture as present in the damage.
It was believed that this would speed up the moisture removal process, some fifteen years ago that was a common thought. To me, it never made any sense to introduce even more moisture into the damage....especially after the 12 Volt Moisture Evaporator (like they called it at GW, the original name is Drystar) was introduced.
Again; Why would anybody want to use a ''moisture removing substance'' (be it alcohol or any other fluid) to remove the moisture? It became totally obsolete, why not using the Drystar?
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Re: New to the business
I agree with you Frank. The Drystar does a great job of evaporating the moisture in a few minutes without introducing contaminates into the break. Another advantage of the Drystar is that you can gently change the temperature of the immediate area temporarily. This allows you to warm air on a cold day, making it lighter and easier to remove under vacuum. It also causes the damage to reduce in size, also helping to squeeze air and moisture to the entry hole.
As long as you don't heat too quick on a cold day, and allow the glass to cool to ambient temperature before repairing, removing moisture with a Drystar isn't a problem. Quick and easy.
When are we going to see you again in the U.S. Frank? It's been a long time since we spoke, I look forward to the next time.
David Casey
SueprGlass Windshield Repair, Inc.
As long as you don't heat too quick on a cold day, and allow the glass to cool to ambient temperature before repairing, removing moisture with a Drystar isn't a problem. Quick and easy.
When are we going to see you again in the U.S. Frank? It's been a long time since we spoke, I look forward to the next time.
David Casey
SueprGlass Windshield Repair, Inc.
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Re: New to the business
Hi Dave, we have just returned home from yet another trip (ON-MI-IL), we'll be back in August and November or December (and probably SEMA), I have dropped you an email.SuperGlassDave wrote:When are we going to see you again in the U.S. Frank? It's been a long time since we spoke, I look forward to the next time.
Re: New to the business
Thanks for the comments and info. We will order a crack spreader for the longer repairs from delta kits. As for applying pressure and heating the WS, How much heat and for how long. We have worked with just applying thumb pressure to help the resin spread into the crack naturally, this only goes so far though before it is dripping out of the crack. Does the heat make a lot of difference in how far the resin travells along the repair?
Looks like I may need another practice W.S. !! I am glad I found this forum, It is a real help for someone as new as we are to this business.
Looks like I may need another practice W.S. !! I am glad I found this forum, It is a real help for someone as new as we are to this business.
Re: New to the business
Question for screenman.
Are you saying that I could just use nail polish remover ( which is Acetone ) instead of taking chance with rubbing or denatured alchohol to clean the area first? I appreciate all of your tips at this time!
Are you saying that I could just use nail polish remover ( which is Acetone ) instead of taking chance with rubbing or denatured alchohol to clean the area first? I appreciate all of your tips at this time!
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Re: New to the business
SAFEWINDOW wrote:As I don't want to create a fuss, we can agree to disagree.
The facts I have been witness to:
1. I have only seen one type of pvb separate on its own. It was specially designed for use in sound proofing type windows
2. The amount of alcohol you would normally introduce into a break would evaporate long before it truly "melts" the pvb.
3. Would it cause some damage to the pvb? Absolutely. It could and would cause the pvb to become "cloudy".
4. Does it leave a residue? Yes
5. Wanna see instant melt / delam, try MEK.
My original point was to stay away if possible from using alcohol. More from the residue issue than the melting issue.
Just for giggles i'll take a chunk of .090 pvb I have and put it in a jar of denatured and watch / take pics. I hope to prove myself wrong and ante up the humble pie. When I'm done with that i'll be thirsty...i'll have couple of drinks and melt my liver a little!
As promised, we made a video of me cutting a piece of laminated glass and posted it on youtube. As you can clearly see, it takes very little denatured alcohol to soften the PVB enough to allow the glass to separate where it was scored, and it happens quite quickly.
I also placed a small strip of PVB that I cut from the edge of the windshield in a jar 1/2 full with alcohol. It began to soften immediately but did not dissolve as quickly as I thought it would. The way I performed the test was to place the strip vertically in a small container 1/2 filled with denatured alcohol. I attached the strip to the side of the container so that it did not touch the bottom of the container, and then marked the side of the container at both ends of the strip and at the level of the alcohol. After 2 days a lot of the alcohol had evaporated and the strip of PVB was slightly shorter, but still in tact. I then filled the alcohol to the same level as before, about 1/2 half of the strip covered, and left it over the weekend. When I came in this morning the strip was completely gone, but there was an oily looking substance floating in the alcohol, and some small slimy particles in the bottom of the container, which I presume to be the dissolved PVB. Total length of the test was 4 days.
This was not the most scientific test in the world, but I feel it is enough to confirm that we really should not ever allow alcohol to come in contact with the PVB. I know your beef with me was that you don't think alcohol melts PVB, and you are right that is probably not accurate terminology, but I think you will agree that it sure looks that way when using it as part of the laminated glass cutting process. I'm not sure dissolve or soften are accurate terms either, but I don't know how else to describe the reaction.
Brent Deines
Delta Kits, Inc.
Delta Kits, Inc.
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Re: New to the business
You've made your point very clearly, nice video Brent! I once vissited a glass factory where they cutted the laminated glass fully automatically, they used a red hot heating line, the glass was cutted easy and precisely, not sure whether they also used any chemical or just heat >I'll have the images in my file.
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Re: New to the business
Obviously the way I did it is not the only way, and maybe not even the preferred way, but it is how we used to do it in our shop. Did you notice that I was using a 20 year old $2 glass cutter and a home made T-Square? I also just realized that I was not wearing gloves as I was in a bit of a hurry and way out of practice. Old school all the way. Don't try this at home kids, or at least not the way I did it! Safety first!!!
Brent Deines
Delta Kits, Inc.
Delta Kits, Inc.
Re: New to the business
Leaving a piece of PVB in a jar full of alcohol is not really a meaningful scientific experiment as this doesn't really mirror the same parameters in which alcohol is used in small doses for cleaning.
Anyway , why not use an organo-functional silane based coupling agent after using the Drystar/moisture evaporator.. That helps in eliminating water/moisture too.
Good day
Anyway , why not use an organo-functional silane based coupling agent after using the Drystar/moisture evaporator.. That helps in eliminating water/moisture too.
Good day
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Re: New to the business
Do what???zerolando wrote:Leaving a piece of PVB in a jar full of alcohol is not really a meaningful scientific experiment as this doesn't really mirror the same parameters in which alcohol is used in small doses for cleaning.
Anyway , why not use an organo-functional silane based coupling agent after using the Drystar/moisture evaporator.. That helps in eliminating water/moisture too.
Good day
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