Surface Pits...Repair Or Not?

[ruffburr]

I just recived my copy of auto glass magazine (sept/oct issue) in the repair section they have an article called pitfalls of windshield repair in a nut shell the article is talking about repair techs charging the ins. co's full price for minor pit repairs and how the ins co's are getting ticked off and are considering some type of action, Myself if i'm doing a repair and notice a small pit i just fill it and never mention it to the ins/act people as i don't figure that a small pit is a legit repair so to speak. What i see coming from this is we are all going to have a harder time dealing with the ins co's and eventualy become more regulated at any rate it does'nt sound good.

[scratchy]

You know something. The customer is part of the approval process. Nobody should be getting around the customer telling the network how many chips are getting fixed. I have the opposite problem of customers NOT wanting to get certain chips fixed because they are sure it won't crack out.

[Delta Kits]

Thanks for bringing this subject up RuffBurr.

We will be submitting an article to AutoGlass Magazine next month in response to this article written by Gary Gifford of Maverick Glass.

The problem they are talking about is when technicians see a surface pit (where there is no underlying damage, only a slight pit on the top of the windshield), and decide to charge the insurance company for a chip repair.

In Delta Kits' opinion, technicians that do this are jeopardizing the industry by engaging in this practice. Insurance companies see this as fraud, and some are discussing whether to pay for any windshield repairs at all because of the actions of a few. The main goal behind windshield repair is to save the windshield from cracking out, which saves insurance companies and customers money. When you have technicians whose policy is to find any slight imperfection or surface pit in the windshield, and bill the insurance company, this not only does NOT satisfy the goal of windshield repair, since it wouldn't crack out anyway, but also costs insurance companies money unnecessarily.

If you are currently doing this, or allowing your employees to do this, we urge you to discontinue this practice immediately. We must police ourselves, rather than having the insurance companies discontinue paying for repairs due to the actions of a few.

Unfortunately, there are some who want windshield repair to go away. If not windshield repair as a whole, at least the independent technicians. In the AutoGlass Magazine article, Gary Gifford of Maverick Glass states:

We all know technicians that do it. They're sitting in car washes, gas stations, mini marts, and other frequent stops soliciting unsuspecting policyholders to file a claim. "Save your windshield. Save money. Repair now, it's free."

We must make sure that people that would like to see independent windshield repair technicians disappear, cannot use this as ammunition towards that goal.

Delta Kits will do everything we can to stop this practice from spreading, including educating current and future customers about this problem.

[Dave M]

Jeff,

I totally agree with your last post. A surface pit or chip that has no visible break or air behind it should not be considered a repair.
The only situation where I charge for surface "repairs" is for rental agencies turnback vehicles. General Motors requests that any chips or pits larger than 1/8 inch in diameter (must be 3 or more in the wiper sweep) be filled with pit filler. I've never understood the reasoning behind this since the vehicles are being sold as "used" but it's at thier request!
Like you said Jeff, anyone charging Insurance Companies or simply a paying customer for repairing a surface pit, should STOP.
There may be some situations where this practice would be okay, in my opinion. A customer has a large chunk of glass missing from where a rock hit the w/s (let's say the size of an eraser on a pencil). He's afraid it could eventually break the glass so a proper fill of the chip is performed and a minimal fee is charged.
Would this be okay?

[scratchy]

From that statement that was quoted, they are pointing the finger at the wrong person! Techs in convenient locations are providing a service, not trying to scam insurance companies per se. I would add, that these guys are most likely doing at LEAST 50% cash repairs.
Bottom line, any scammer out there is probably not reading any trade magazine, buying top quality tools, resin or recieving any training at all.
FWIW I have pretty much given up on the location thing in favor of: yellow pages, referrals and coitstering. The location can often bring more problems than its worth when the other methods of finding work are going good.

[Delta Kits]

The only situation where I feel that doing surface chips is okay for the money:

1. After explaining to the customer that the only reason to do it would be for cosmetic reasons, and that it is not to prevent further damage.

Dave M, that would certainly apply to your rental agency.

Another problem to doing these, is simply that there is a very good chance that the pit resin will not adhere to the windshield for the life of the vehicle. There is not much there for the pit resin to grab on to.

[Mikedoby]

I have never charged extra for filling small pits unless the windshield is covered with them and I am not already repairing a bullseys or other break. I do work for Enterprise Rent-A-Car and I always as a courtesy fill any pits that I see while doing other work on the windshield. I make sure that they are aware of what I did repair and always mention it on the invoice with "No Charge" out beside the comment. This little extra that I provide for the customer is buying me a lot of business and costing me very little.

[GlassStarz]

I agree with jeff but lets face it sometimes we make that big ole ugly divot look better . Often a bad enough divot will cause the customer to replace in this case charge em you saved the insurance company from the cost of replacemen and should be paid for itt.

[maxryde]

I have not viewed the article as yet but I have been involved with the practice referred to in the article in the following manner. A number of customers have approached me asking for a free repair when they only have a pit or maybe a few. I always tell them that the damage is only surface and that it will not spread. The insurance industry will not pay for cosmedic blem repair and the only reason to fill the small pits is to solve the streaky wiper problem that occurs when the blades are repeatedly passing over the damaged area, thus causing premature wiper failure and additional expense to the customer for replacement blades. Most times I use the opportunity to educate the individual about repair and replacement while I fill the pits at no charge. I have charged a nominal fee for the ones that had a large number of pits ("to cover the cost of the filler"). I feel this is a great way of building consumer confidence and potential customers for the future!!

As far as the position the article's author takes if enough folks partake of this kind of FRAUDULENT practice it will wreak havoc on the industry as a whole and needs to be addressed in some manner. I doubt the will shut down the repair process as it is a great value to them but they could require prequalification or some other form of proof the claim is valid. Undoubtedly causing those of us that make every effort to continue to provide a quality service to the public and the insurance industry additional effort and expense to continue with our businesses.

Best of luck to those who are doing the right thing Scott

[StarQuest]

After reading this article I have only one question I'd like to ask?

Anybody know what Mavericks Glass company's repair to replacement ratio is? I can honestly say since I've taken on repair full time while also continuing to provide replacements my current ratio is 80% repair to 20% replacements.... billed out to the insurance companies. How many independent or bigger glass replacement companies do you think can back up those stats? Very few if any..... I'd imagine.

Does fraud take place within our repair industry? Of course it does! Some guys out there choose to milk insurance companies for another $10-$20 per job. It's very unfortunate that those few (when I say few, I mean like maybe 1 out of every 10 repair techs from my current knowledge do this) And yes, you guys make us all look bad!

In our defense I'd also like to mention if you really take a closer look at all the collison shops and replacement shops around you today, I'll bet you'll discover 7 of every 10 operating also commit insurance fraud. There is one very noticeble difference though! Our few bad apples may be costing insurance companies $10-$20 extra in a false claim while many of the replacement and collision shops are hitting them up for possibly hundreds!!! So who is actually the insurances companies worst offenders? Us or them????? Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out! Many glass replacement businesses really hate us toady because were repairing shields that in the past they'd normally just replace and as a result their sales are down. There biggest fears right now is that we're increasing in numbers and they'd like to stop that! I have a feeling that's why this article was written.

To prove what I'm saying about glass shop claims fraud being the bigger problem, just pop a nice nickel to quarter size star on your personal shield someday and walk into any one of these glass shops, then tell them you have a "zero" or $50 comprehensive glass deductible and see what happens! I've actually done this before in my area and the results where quite shocking. Out of the 6 shops I visited, they all tried talking me into having my glass replaced when it was actually repairable

Wish I lived close enough to try this one at Mr. Gilffords glass shop because I'd love to see the results.

Not to worry, repair isn't going away because of this article. I would take it more as a early warning to some of you guys to stop this fraudulent practice and just do things honestly. There's absolutely no reason that you can't make a decent living in this business without scamming others or the insurance company's.

Maybe there is one other thing for you guys to think about What's going to happen someday when a very agressive, honest newbie repair tech comes into your area and exposes your fradulent behavoir? I think you might be in trouble Think about that for a moment