Are there any headlight types you should not be restored?

[ray6]

Ray - thanks for taking the time to respond - and such a detailed and informative post too!

If you have the time - can you please elaborate on the following?...

...we provide a simple 10 minute restore by stripping off the old coating and recoating with a polyurethane coat.

About 70% of the time, the old coating can be chemically stripped off and a new coating applied. This won't be sufficient for some premium restorations, but in general exceeds the customer's expectations. Since no sanding is performed, the only surface prep after stripping is to fully clean the surface to remove any remaining stripper or old coating. This is done with 100% alcohol.
This method won't work for the following:
Scratches still visible after strip.
Any headlight that ths been previously restored using abrasives.
Headlights with pits that are unacceptable to the customer.
Premium restores requiring a 3 year warranty.

The new coating (either Infinity or our own resin based) is applied with a foam applicator. UV protection is a function of the type of coating and the thickness. Infinity is rather thin, so we apply 2 coats, 5 minutes between coats. Our resin coating is thick, about 3 mils, and only needs one coat. The resin coat is applied using horizontal wipes, then re-wiped vertically. This gives us a more uniform, streak free coating.

The new coating

Is that the Infinity you call the Polyurethane coat or something else?
Infinity is a water borne coating. Not sure of the content. Our resin coating is solvent based, and uses phenolic resin as opposed to polyurethane.

Takes about 10 minutes per car...

10 minutes is average, since there's only 3 steps involved: Strip, clean, coat. Since there's no masking or sanding, there's no splatter or dust to clean up. Some may take a bit longer, some less. It depends on how long the stripping takes, usually 3-6 minutes.

I'm not getting this? Most headlights are made from acrylic, with a tough, but thin polycarbonate coating - which is what fails with the UV light. Agreed?
Headlights are made from polycarbonate with a protective coating applied at the factory. Tail lights, turn signals, etc. are acrylic. It's easy to see the difference by hitting with a hammer. Polycarbonate fill flix, and maybe crack. Acrylic will shatter like glass.

The aim is to remove the poly, expose the acrylic, refinish the acrylic and replace the poly? Yep?
Remove protective factory coat from the polycarbonate, clean, apply a new protective coating. The confusion arrises because we use the terms interchangably. We should say polycarbonate form the plastic used, and polyurethane for the coating or sometimes just PU. Acrylic is made from pcrude oil. Polycarbonate is made from natural glass and is trademarkde as Lexan and is sometimes called bullet proof glass.

So what I don't get, is - if you can remove the poly so fast, without sanding - why do you have other methods? Surely to complete the process properly, the poly needs removing in every case?
Chemically stripping doesn't work in all cases. Some defects and ultra-hard coatings won't be removed with stripper, and will require additional work using sandpaper or even razor blades.

We also rub a finger across the surface. If differences can be felt, and this is a premium restore, sanding is generally required.

So if it's rough - you have to sand it? Doesn't that mean the poly is damaged and would come off easier than undamaged poly - which is VERY hard to get off?
If you can feel it with your fingertip, there is extensive damage to the coating. Depending on the type of restore, any coating that remains after stripping could be coated over, but other than commercial or low end restores you may not want to. The stripper only removes broken linked molecules (no longer cross linked) but has little effect on the intact stuff.

If the surface roughness is visible but can't be felt, it usually means it will come off with the stripper and no sanding will be required.

This is just a general guideline to the condition of the damaged coating. In actual practice, you may not be able to pre-determine whether sanding will be required before you start, but in any case if you can remove most of the coating with stripper, any sanding required will be less than no stripper.

Now I'm lost? Apologies - but if the surface is in better condition i.e smooth - your stripper will take it off? Doesn't that mean the poly is still hard and therefore should be tougher, not easier?
Look at it this way. The old coating probably consists of two types of material; damaged that's easily removed with stripper, and undamaged that isn't removed. You have a choice of totally removing any undamaged material (through sanding) or coating over it.

In between we use Infinity 4.1 (2 coats)

Two coats? Is there a benefit in this? Just curious
There is a finite capacity of UV absorption. Twice the coating thickness will double the capacity.

Sometimes we'll hand sand with 3000 grit to give the headlight some tooth, often when using Infinity. It's not worth breaking out a power sander for 60 seconds of sanding.

The 3000 polish isn;t to remove surface defects, it's to give the new coating greater surface area to latch on to.

I'd love to see crystal clear lenses after a 3000 polish and straight to Infinity...
Not sure if Delta Kits will allow it, but I'll try to figure out how to post photos of the sequance.

I sent as PM about those applicators too Ray.

Again, thanks for so much detail in your post - I appreciate it and others too no doubt!

Have a great day

To me the bottom line is to have the capability of doing a range of restores to meet customer's needs. I don't believe any 1 system or product can efficiently address all. As the market matures, you'll start to see many previously butchered restores and have to compete with the gypsy style buff and run guys. I believe you can compete with just about anyone with the proper arsenal of tricks and techniques.

We're starting to see more and more commercial work like government fleets, commercial trucks, taxis, etc. People are keeping their cars longer as indicated by the rising values of used cars. If you can tailor your work to your customer's needs, and do a good job with a real warranty, you'll build a good reputation and referrals will follow.
ray6

Pommy.

[pommy]

Ray,

Thanks for the reply - I've sent you an email.

The stripper only removes broken linked molecules (no longer cross linked) but has little effect on the intact stuff.

As I've tried alcohol, in various forms - the above statement makes complete sense.

Most of my HLR's are clear lenses, not crusty yellow. The poly coating has started to come off, usually near the top in "islands".

70% of my work is where the lens is clear on arrival, late model car - they just want the flakey top bit fixing. Alcohol has zero effect in all my testing on lights like this.

It has a "slight" effect on yellow, uneven and rough lenses, in the sense that there is a small amount of yellow "run off" coming down the lens, but by no means a "strip". These are the ones you say you have to do a premium restore on? Whereas I find the ones in good condition are much, much harder to restore.

The alcohol I used was de-natured, as I can't buy 100% here - I'm sure that won't make a difference. (It's 99.95 and de-natured only so you can't consume it).

I've also tried Isoproply 100% and a few others - all have no effect. Can you offer any advice why that might be?

Torrential rain here for 1 week so far

Cheers,

Pommy

[ray6]

Ray,

Thanks for the reply - I've sent you an email.

The stripper only removes broken linked molecules (no longer cross linked) but has little effect on the intact stuff.

As I've tried alcohol, in various forms - the above statement makes complete sense.

Most of my HLR's are clear lenses, not crusty yellow. The poly coating has started to come off, usually near the top in "islands".

70% of my work is where the lens is clear on arrival, late model car - they just want the flakey top bit fixing. Alcohol has zero effect in all my testing on lights like this.

It has a "slight" effect on yellow, uneven and rough lenses, in the sense that there is a small amount of yellow "run off" coming down the lens, but by no means a "strip". These are the ones you say you have to do a premium restore on? Whereas I find the ones in good condition are much, much harder to restore.

The alcohol I used was de-natured, as I can't buy 100% here - I'm sure that won't make a difference. (It's 99.95 and de-natured only so you can't consume it).

I've also tried Isoproply 100% and a few others - all have no effect. Can you offer any advice why that might be?

Torrential rain here for 1 week so far

Cheers,

Pommy

Hi Pommy-
We only usa alcohol to clean the polycarbonate before coating. I don't think it would have any effect on stripping. Have you tried Delta Kit's cleaner?
ray6

[t4k]

Ray6 - After all the above discussion, the question remains, what do you use to strip? Or is it a proprietary solution that is specially formulated by your on staff chemist?

[pommy]

Ray, thanks for your reply, but man - I'm such a dope!

I thought you said you used alcohol as a stripper!?! (reading on an iPhone)

Please ignore the posts I made

t4k hit the nail on the head - what is the stripper? Can you buy it? Make it?

We'd all love a product that would speed up the HLR process

Cheers,

Pommy.

[t4k]

t4k hit the nail on the head - what is the stripper?

Thanks Pommy!!!

[sgearhart]

I just got the WSR kit on Friday and did two restorations today (one of our cars and next door neighbor) They both turned out very nice, was very excited about the results I want to thank everyone for all of the great information. It is great to have a place like this to share ideas and information.

[pommy]

You got good results with a WSR kit?- wow!

Just kidding - nice to hear you got the results you were after with the HLR kit

Did you manage to get no scratches and a clear finish, using just the 3000 then Infinity?

@ ray - please post back mate!

@ t4k - love you.

[Old Blue 66]

I just got the WSR kit on Friday and did two restorations today (one of our cars and next door neighbor) They both turned out very nice, was very excited about the results I want to thank everyone for all of the great information. It is great to have a place like this to share ideas and information.

Im lost. What is a WSR kit?

[pommy]

WSR - Windscreen/Shield Repair Kit

HLR - Headlight Repair Kit