Drilling Into The Laminate

[ChipMaster]

I agree with GOLD STAR, and isnt this a great topic one of my favorite topics!!:}

[maxryde]

haswade, definitely get some mirrors and if you practice using a penlight to check for air in a break you will find that you can see just fine with the darker tips. I use the black seals from delta because I find them to be superior to the white ones. They last longer and I have tossed a few of the white seals after only using them once or twice because they didn't want to function properly, they just seemed to crush instead of allowing the piston to enter. I thought it was due to too much pressure but to no avail, so I switched to the black seal and voila problem solved. (sorry Jeff)

Now the drilling to the lami situation, I did that when I was new and had problems with cracks running around the drill mark and other issues too. I now pop a bull with good results and recomend it, bulls are very easy to repair and they do a fantastic job of stopping a crack without the run out situation, so why not use that method? Scott

[Brent Deines]

For the record, Delta's white seals are made from the exact same material as the black seals, and the same mold is used for all Delta seals. We sell more white seals than black, but it is simply personal preference. Still, we have customers who will swear that the white ones are better, and others that will swear the black ones are better.

As for drilling into the laminate, we certainly do not recommend it, primarily for safety reasons, but also for cosmetic reasons. When I first started repairing windshields 18 years ago I would sometimes drill to the laminate if I was having trouble getting resin into a tight star break, but for the past 15 years I have not found that to be necessary, and my repairs look better than ever. In fact, I drill less than one out of a hundred breaks, and I never drill to the laminate. I admit that I could probably shave a minute or so off of each repair by drilling, but I don't believe that is worth sacrificing cosmetics. Drill holes are visible.

I can't tell you how many times I have had this conversation with customers, so I really tried hard to stay out of it this time, but I agree with most of you that safety really needs to be of primary importance, and if there is even a chance that drilling into the laminate weakens the glass, we should not be doing it. As for cosmetics, some of us are more concerned than others, but I can not imagine anyone not wanting to make their repairs look as good as they possibly can.

We have a lot of people that come to our training and certification classes that have been taught to drill every repair, but by the time they leave, very few believe that drilling is necessary in most instances.

Some great points have been made in this thread. Using the right equipment and resins will definitely make a good technician better, but it will not do much for a technician that does not use proper techniques, or just plain doesn't care. Many technicians are self taught and do great repairs, but I believe that training is helpful for every new technician. I also believe that even veteran technicians benefit from training that is specific to the equipment they use. The best technicians will tell you that they continue to learn every day. I know I do.

[StarQuest]

Brent,

I couldn't agree with you more about drilling into the lamimant. If any tech out there thinks this is the proper way to repair windshields they definately aren't too concerned with cosmetic results and make repair in itself look bad. This is one of the main reasons I'll pass on doing refills. Can I make old repairs look better, of course! Can I remove the damage they've already done to the lami? Never! Why ever put your signature on something like that? I wouldn't and never will.

With the newer resins, training and equipment available today, there's absolutely no need to drill that far into the glass. It's simply not neccessary.

[Jeremiahswindshieldrepair]

Repairing peoples mess ups is a prime example of a time to drill to the laminate. I let them know it won't look perfect but it will be better tand the section I fix will now be solid and will not crack out on you. I think you aren't prepping your customers for the results of their chip in advance that's why you think it is a problem to have a small mark on a rare occassion. Most of my customers would rather see something done thoroughly (namely a re-repair) and have a small inconsequential pock mark then have it not done at all, but that's because I prep my customers on how it will look.

[Sneck]

Speaking of "prepping" customers on how a repair will look....

I recently repaired a chip for a customer who was not near the car when I was there doing the repair. The repair turned out great, except for the usual slight blemish left behind. He paid me for the job and everything was hunky-dory. My customer called me the next day to tell me that I had repaired the "wrong chip" on his windshield.

I didn't see any other chips on the windshield... could I have missed it??? Probably not. I was quite sure he was talking about the exact chip that I did repair. So I asked him where the chip was on his windshield that I was suppose to fix in relation to the chip that I did fix. My customer responded... "That would be impossible to tell because the chip you fixed is now completely invisible".

I knew he was looking at my repaired chip, but I wanted to go make sure and put my customer at ease - so I went right over to see. I explained to him that I normally I explain to my customers how it will look so there are no surprises, but in this case I neglected to "prep" him. I wanted him to be a happy customer and refer more business so I told him I would certainly refund his money if he was truly un-happy with the repair. He said no that would not be necessary, and that he is very happy that I came right over to check it out, and was happy to hear that the chip was repaired and guaranteed.

He said not too many business would come back so quick to take care of a no-body 1-time customer. And he would be referring others to my windshield repair service.

So the lesson here is: ALWAYS "Prep" "Prep" "Prep" every customer.

Sneck

[Jeremiahswindshieldrepair]

I always say this ... all of the following is a quote and I also use hand gestures to add believability and congruance of body and speech.

" Have you ever had a windshield fixed before? No? ok well I just want to let you know what to expect when the bandage comes off .... I always explain it like this ... imagine gluing 2 pieces of wood together, if you use wood glue those things are stuck together right? When they are glued together they aren't seperating but you can still see the edges where they meet .... it's the same with a windshield. When the windshield cracks it makes 2 edges .. i glue those 2 edges together but you can still see where it was glued ... there's no way of making the edges go away unless you melt the thing back together and as far as I know we don't have that technology yet."


I can honestly say that I never have questions after that .... it makes sense to almost everyone I say it to and in fact it almost makes it look absurd to expect that I could melt it back together to look perfect. I customize it to peoples professions too ..... if it is a dentist I mention it is like where a cap and a tooth meet .. there is still a line there but they are joined and stuck together unless something severe happens. My most common response is something to the effect of "Oh ya I expect that but as long as it won't move that's all I care about." Imagine having customers tell you they don't care about how it looks .... this can be taken advantage of so I would only suggest this extremely powerful technique be used by responsible techs because it is NOT a substitute for poor quality workmanship ... although it excuses even the worst of chips. I have gotten in the habit of telling people what percentage of improvement I expect BEFORE I do the chip so they are not surprised after it is done as well. 80% 90% whateverI think it may be.

[gold star wsr]

I say this to nearly every new client: "The purpose of wsr is to prevent further damage from occuring, in other words... crack-out. The cosmetic benefits, while desirable, are secondary. Invisible and disappear are not in the windshield repair vocabulary. No matter how well the repair is done, there will still be some evidence of the damage, however slight.''