A tough desicion

Discuss all aspects of windshield replacement, including techniques, billing, etc.
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pa glass
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A tough desicion

Post by pa glass »

I just had a 2013 Hyundai sante fe come in. It was insurance. I started to work on removing the side trim. It's one of these kind where you have no idea how to release them. I began to pry up and poke tools under it. I right away started to break what ever was under there.

Now what? The dealer says it's two days to get parts so I already have to disappoint the customer who just wasted their time with me.
Next, these parts would have to be painted. Although the net work said they would cover that cost I have a big problem. If I order $600. worth of non returnable parts and the customer goes else where or the car gets totaled or what ever. I loose all that cash.

It's just too risky for me. Has any one else had to let a job go for this kind of thing?
What might you have done?

How exactly are we supposed to know which trim parts are designed to come apart and which you should assume get replaced.?

I understand we just do our best and try to figure it out at each job, but that doesn't feel very professional to me. Does the Mitchel software help with this or does it just show drawings that still don't really show you what you can do?

Also, is Mitchel the only source for a part look up that takes a vin and gives you the actual nags part number with appropriate options.
For instance, Data tranz just tells you which parts are available for a model but you still won't know if it has a condensation sensor or not. What is the least expensive look up service for this. Thanks for any help
Windshield911
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by Windshield911 »

What was it you were breaking under the trim exactly? I don't guess I've done a Hyundai, did you use a plastic pry tool to pry under instead of a metal? I always use plastic around paint and metal parts of vehicle.
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by pa glass »

Well, I did use a metal clip release tool to lift it up just to look. I didn't hurt anything by looking but I couldn't see well enough in that little space to know what's under there. I went ahead and worked on the plastic under neath till some gave way. I think it just broke up.
I found a way to handle the problem. I made certain all parts are returnable if un used. Then I let the owner know that I could have the parts on hand and then I would be able to install the lower clip parts if I need to to be able to install the shield and then If it also needs the top, he would have to live with out them while they go out to get painted. If I don't need the tops I can return them. He is ok with that so I will still get to do the job next week

Next thing is, I asked for an estimate from the body shop for cost to paint the trim and he told me it would be illegal to give me an estimate with out the auto being there. He will never have the auto there, only the parts if I end up needing it done but I guess if I bring parts in he can give me something then for the network to approve first. So I don't have anything in writing for the network.

I bet after I finish destroying the passenger trim I will know how to remove the driver side. I work in my shop. I have to say I would hate to be on the road any more struggling in front of the customers. Must be awful when you are not sure what to do with everyone watching and waiting.
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MichaelSmedley
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by MichaelSmedley »

Prying from the back of the trim (between body and mould) often causes less damage, using a plastic scraper or like, so as not to cause paint damage. The barbed clips tend come out more often than not this way.

Even if you damage the odd one, it's not usually a write off clip. Any damaged clips can be fixed easy with a tiny spot weld of Sika or like. A tiny spot mind you, with an uncut nozzle. This is a perfectly acceptable procedure so long as you haven't smashed all the clips and you have to get too trigger happy with the Adhesive.

It will get you out of trouble on the occasion and you can then decide on your next one whether to order a set of clips in advance.

Many new vehicles now use the barbed one way clip. The design works well, however it means we have to keep a large variety of clips in stock. Which is not so desirable.
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pa glass
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by pa glass »

Thank you Michael for a very useful post. I will certainly start with that when I get the vehicle back in in a couple of days.

I am waiting for a call back from Mitchel international. I asked them if their vin look up will give the exact part needed or just a list. The woman did't know and said she would find out. I believe all they offer is a list of potential parts. What do you guys find is the best way to handle multiple windshield parts. The customer sure doesn't know what they have and you can't always get to see it which isn't a guarantee that you can tell anyway. Data Tranz says they had once offered such a service but that no one wanted to pay for it. I would be glad to pay on a per use basis when needed.
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Brent Deines
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by Brent Deines »

I haven't been in the replacement business for quite a few years so I can't tell you precisely what you are up against, but generally speaking your glass supplier will have all the "necessary" parts for the windshield being replaced and many of the optional parts. If you aren't sure, have them deliver the parts with the windshield and return them if you don't need them. A good supplier will also know what all the other shops typically purchase with the windshield in question.

If it does happen to be a factory part and the insurance company or network will authorize payment I would order it and bill it to them if the windshield cannot be removed without damaging the clips or moldings. However, if it can be removed without damaging the clips or moldings, but you just don't know how, that's a different story in my book. In that case I don't think it is right to bill for a learning process.

So what kind of dealer won't let you return unopened parts? I can understand a 10% restocking if it was special order but I've never had a dealership tell me I could not return a part.
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by pa glass »

Hi Brent, thanks for responding. I deal mostly with Pilkington and Interstate. Neither of them have these clip or trim pieces for this model and I couldn't have known what to even order ahead of time from the dealer before I saw the car.Of course if it was just a matter of saying send me the clips with the glass I would do that, we all do that. I can return the parts back to the dealer if un opened. It's if I need to use new outer trim which would have to be painted that it could't be returned.

As far as not charging for the "learning process" that's a little tricky. We all have our experience and tricks of the trade that get us through most jobs. I doubt there is a more resourceful bunch of trades men on the planet. A simple rubber trim can often be reused but it isn't a guarantee. The fact that there may be a best way to attempt to save a part that often works is really just a bonus to the customer if you happen to know it. There will always be parts that you have been successful in removing any number of times but this time it was too old or it was too cold or whatever and that does not mean you have to buy a part. There is a difference between you breaking a part, such as placing on the floor and then stepping on it, and a part breaking while you are performing normal and necessary functions of a glass install. When you get a tune up and your wiring harness falls apart the mechanic tells you"we had to replace your harness" and it gets added to the bill. The exact truth is that not one of the parts we have to work with is in fact designed to be removed and re installed. All parts are designed to installed one time at the factory. Can you imagine if every time you tried to charge the net work for a pack of clips that nags says "may need to be replaced" the network says to you hold on, we happen to know that this guy Glen in Pa saved those a few months ago on the same vehicle so he must know how to save them and you are not as good as he is so you have to pay. Just like anyone in here I've saved a thousand parts in more than two decades but you can't know it all and you can't save em all.
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Brent Deines
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Re: A tough desicion

Post by Brent Deines »

I understand completely and if you are a skilled technician that has done everything you can to save a molding and/or clips, but it just cannot be done, there is nothing wrong with billing for the new parts. In fact you would be doing a disservice to your customer if you did not replace damaged parts. Those of us reading your posts have no way to know if you are a skilled technician or not so my comments were not intended to insinuate that you are not, just that "if" you are not you should not bill for your mistakes.

Most of the current software on the market does a reasonably good job of listing the moldings and clips but I assume since you contacted Mitchell you are not using software? That certainly makes it more challenging to know if you will need additional parts or not when you are not familiar with the vehicle but the dealer should have a schematic showing those parts as well if can't find one online.

I also understand that until you inspect the vehicle you never know exactly what you are getting in to. I've quoted plenty of jobs that should have been very straight forward installations, only to find that a previous installer had bonded the moldings to the glass and car body rather than replace the clips and/or molding, making it impossible to remove without damaging them.

In the pre-Internet, pre-computer days it was always a guessing game if you were not familiar with the vehicle. Much easier today but still some challenges to be sure.
Brent Deines
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