did a chip on the inside part of windshield

[Frank EU]

jasonresin, your story is not weird at all. We have seen this at least ten times. When we are contacted by an owner of a passenger car, or find one in a lot, with a damage on the INSIDE, it usually is caused because the driver has been visiting Home Depot like stores, moving construction wood, pipes or something else with a too long length. It hits the glass when they shut the back door (or is it trunk?) >does not matter, it is silly and funny anyway. Or it happens when the too long product hits the glass because the vehicle slows down at a red light for example. The stuff than simply slides (which actually is a normal act of nature/physics eh). >which is silly and funny too. Than the HGV transportation trucks, in most parts of the world, there are not that many around in North America, the drivers' cabin simply functions as the engine hood, the cabin is located and placed over the engine. The cabin swings with hinges. When work needs to be done on the engine, you simply turn the cabin. What happens than is easy, any driver carries stuff in his cabin, it drops from the dash, bed, chair or where ever and there is your star break. Very easy and likely thing to happen.

Now for the question whether to repair or not, the passenger cars we do not touch. We just cannot be bothered, in fact we don't care. The trucks are easy to do, first reason is that the glass is in a more vertical position, second reason is the room inside, third reason is the quality (it does not matter all that much how it looks, whereas the private owner with the passenger car needs a higher standard). Last but not least reason #4..; if we need windshield to be more vertical, we simply turn the cabin a little until we have reached the right angle for the injectors we use (or place the truck in a position where the glass reaches that angle, for instance in a loading dock.

You see jasonresin, indeed it is an odd thing to experience but it happens in real life out there, it is not funny and indeed posted in the right (sub)forum.
Please do keep on posting here, this was a good topic.

[Dave M]

We all run our business the way we think is best and will gain us the most profit. I follow the ROLAGS as close as possible. I would not have done the break on the inside because of # 7.3 of ROLAGS. What I really don't agree with was drilling through the outer layer and PVB, than into the inner glass. It would now seem that # 7.1 of ROLAGS is not being followed. Again, this is how I run my business.
Sure, we have all seen breaks on the inside, that's not weird. If you want to repair breaks on the inside, it's your business so do as you please! If your customer is happy with the results, you get payed and the repair holds, that's great.
I, obviously am a firm believer in ROLAGS. I believe we should have a standard to follow in our business. At least it's not a standard set by the government! Not yet.

[jasonsresin]

ok, although i've been a member here since feb 2008, i've really only been active for a little while. what is rolags? i'm assuming its a manual put out by nwra, with recomended laws and bylaws. i have been considering joining nwra for a while now. back on topic.

what is the reason they dont recomend it? is it structural integrity. or is it because its tougher to get perfect, and we only want perfect repairs representing our trade out there?

[Frank EU]

jasonresin, go to http://www.rolags.com/ for more information.

[SuperGlassDave]

It's kind of hard to believe that this story isn't really just a Saturday Night Live or "Gotcha" story. I think it illustrates most of what is bad about our industry and shows what kinds of repairs and attitudes are out there with some part time, only in it for a buck, repairers.
That story was all about the money, totally disregarding the safety and reputation issues that should be applied. I don't replace, nor do 99% of our locations, so I would totally be passing on performing this type of repair. What was the description, "It didn't look too bad"? That's a poor picture of a successful repair. Breaking through the laminate, repairing the inner layer is against ROLAGS, NWRA Recommended Practices but, most importantly against the ethics of every stand up repairer in this business and this forum.
I don't think it's a joke and I don't align myself or my industry, that I am very proud of, with that kind of attitude about repair. IE If you can sneak it by someone who doesn't know any better, you should collect your money - that's wrong in any industry.
If you think this post is what you call rude, well you better get thicker skin because so far, you are what's wrong with this business, not what's cute or right.
David Casey - SuperGlass Windshield Repair, Inc.

[screenman]

Why was it decided a repair could not be carried on the inner layer of glass, regardless of regs, who run the tests and what tests did they do to decide that we should not repair there. Who are the guys setting the standards?

[SuperGlassDave]

Screenman,
Respectfully to you, the early Recommended Standards as well as the current ROLAGS were put together to benefit the w/s repair business, not limit it. Many of the participants of both were repair only. It was an honest effort, that became a valuable tool for repair, to show that there are guidelines and restraint within our industry.

If you have seen the Fox News replacement expose or the Barbara Walters 20/20 television piece on unsafe replacement procedures and how common they are, you should see where I'm coming from. Those tv spots probably represent the worst of all replacement examples but, there they are for us to show others and help us promote saving the factory seal as important. Wouldn't you hate to see the described repair, on the inner layer, that turned out "not too bad", on national television and then used to represent that this is common within the w/s repair industry? Or have that repair performed on the w/s of the director of some state DOT? Sometimes we are going to be viewed only as good as our worst examples, that's why I think we should try to limit those examples when we can by passing on the money and recognizing when something shouldn't be repaired.
I just tend to be more supportive of those that make their living at w/s repair and devote a good amount of pride and ethics to the trade. That's been the roots of w/s repair and that's the future as well. I am not very supportive of part time, goofing around and experimenting on customer's shields repairers who are not looking out for the overall, long term image and reputation of windshield repair. Doesn't matter which company.

The technical issues of drilling through the outer layer, through the PVB and into the inner layer, having exposed pit and glass edges eventually exposed when the pit wears, shoud be pretty clear. What I am alarmed about is the concept that it's ok to even do it and "see what happens".
Sorry for who it offends but, I doubt you could change my view on repairing on the inner layer.
David Casey - SuperGlass

[screenman]

David,

I would certainly not condone the practise of drilling through glass and then PVB to carry out maybe a dubious repair. I am very interested however in finding out exactly what tests and experiences were used to come to the said conclusions.

Believe me when I say I am all for standards and have certainly seen poorly fitted screens, in fact a company did one on my own company sign written vehicle a while back, I made them do it again, many people would not know there was a problem.

The 2 major players over here in replacement and repair do not carry a dryout system, I have spoken to 2 independant repair only companies this week who have been doing repairs for over 5 years and niether of them had thought of drying out.

The major supplier of windshield repair equipment do not show guys how to get moisture out of a damage when training, in fact we dummy shopped them twice and both times thier trainer said moisture could not get into a chip.

Now this last company may well have sat in on the committee who made some of the decisions years ago.

I must add that although this post may seem slightly confrontational it should not be so, as I do agree with your many sentiments. Quality work by quality techs, be they full or part time though should make no difference

[SGT]

Hey Dave,

I am no stranger to regulations with serious leagal consequences if not adheared to in the aviation industry. I am sure you are realizing that as you are trying to become part 145 type certificated I believe with ATRR.

I figured I should post on your statment regarding part timers as I am a part timer and do not believe you meant all part timers as my ethics do not waiver from aviation to automotive or any other aspect of my life just the same as many others here do not. I believe you just meant the type you described "goofing around,experimenting) in your post. There are a lot of part timers here that may have been offened so I wanted to take the liberty to clarify that. I hope I was right.

[screenman]

Well put, I was concentrating more I suppose on showing that the main players are just as bad if not far worse.

Anyway back to the point, why should we not repair on the inner layer of glass, when someone says to me you cannot do that I need the answer why.