cleaning out a chip area

[Matt Anderson]

Brent, I just wanted to say hello. I am the technician that spent 20 mins. drying out the repair at the WRO in Las Vegas. I just started reading your boards.

I think you should have noted in your post. I won the competition! I understand that everyone has different ways of repairing and chips and cracks. Some are more effective than others. I have used the evaporator you are talking about. It does work. But it does not work in 20 seconds and nothing works without care and attention.

I see you started in Montana. Well I started in Western Washington (a rainforest). I have “some experience” with wet repairs.

I would simply like to say, nothing takes the place of time when doing dry out procedures. I have spent the last 10 years looking at bad repairs done by technicians that rushed through dry out. Time is money, however bad repairs will kill this industry. It is never a good thing to teach short cuts.

Did I mention, I won the WRO.

[Brent Deines]

Welcome to the windshield repair forum Matt, and thank you for clearing up the fact that you won the competition. I'm sorry I didn't mention that, but frankly I did not remember who won. I should have checked before making the post, but sometimes I get in a hurry, especially around dinner time. Congratulations on your victory!

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one as we prove to trainees every month that the moisture evaporator "does" work in only 20 seconds on all but the largest repairs, and even the largest repairs can be dried out with a 2nd 20 second application after the glass cools for a few minutes. If you ever care to attend our free training class I am confident you will change your opinion. You are welcome any time.

Although I started repairing glass in Montana over 20 years ago, I moved to western Oregon about a year after that. I'm sure you are aware that western Oregon has a nearly identical climate to western Washington. I have also had the privilege to observe repairs being done in just about every state in the country, and every climate imaginable. I too have seen my share of lousy repairs, and I do not teach short cuts. However I do teach efficiency and techniques that I believe provide the best possible results. Time is always secondary to quality, but if we can achieve both I believe it would be foolish to do it any other way.

I have tried your method and prefer the moisture evaporator. You have tried the moisture evaporator and prefer your method. It's a simple difference in preference, nothing more. As long as you get your repairs completely dried out before you inject your resin and you are comfortable with the time spent doing so, I have no beef with you.

Just because we disagree on a few things doesn't mean we can't still be friends. If that were the case none of us on this forum would be friends. Please accept my humble apology if I offended you in any way. That was certainly not my intention.

Again, welcome to the windshield repair forum. I hope we will heae more from you in the future.

[SGT]

Congratulations Matt on your victory! I have used a moisture evaportor since I started doing repairs with tremendous success. Usually 2-3, 18-20 sec. cycles. For a short period I tried 99.9% Isopropyl Alchohol as well and sometimes combined together but not sure of the real effects on the PVB. Saving time by using the evaporator was never even considered, it just simply works for me.

I like to hear of new methods and I am unclear what method you use. Would you share your method? Can't say I will switch if it takes 20 min. compared to under 5 min. but there always more ways than one to skin a cat. We all have to go with what we feeel comfortable with.

I wanted to compete this year but had a life changing event around that time. If my schedule permits, perhaps I will see you next year.

Again Congrats on your victory.

[Matt Anderson]

Thank you for the kind words regarding the WRO. I hope I did not sound overly aggressive with my opinion. (I just re-read what I wrote. It did sound a little bad.)

The reason that I wanted to comment on this subject is that I see bad repairs everyday. As I am sure most of us do. It makes my skin crawl when I see what MOST of the technicians do in the field. I see people doing repairs in 33 degree weather in the rain, spending no more than 15 min. on the car. This can not be done! In tough conditions time must be taken to do the repair.

The method I use does not take 20 min. in the field. In the competition I was sure that my repair would be the best, I was not in a hurry to finish. This was a completion based on quality not speed. So I took my time and focused on quality.

SGT makes the point that I wanted to hear. 2 to 3 cycles with heat is required, regardless of the size of break or the method of heating. Heat will make the glass contract and hide moisture. You can’t see it but it does exist. Cooling between cycles is required to allow the glass to “relax” for lack of a better word.

In addition to that, dry vacuum is incredibly effective in removing the last bits of moisture. Finally, being patient and allowing the glass and lam to cool be for working on it. This is an often overlooked aspect.

This is all I feel comfortable saying on this board. I do have an obligation to the company I represent. This is stuff that they teach, and they own the rights to the information.

Grudging respect is given to Novus by many people in the repair business. Things like “they have really good resins” and “they did good things in the past” are talked about. The fact is technical training and a commitment to repair is what the company is focused on. We do replacement because it helps serve customers, and makes money. Repair is still the technical focus of the company.

I hope am preaching to the choir. Anyone taking the time to read this board does care about quality. However, considering how stumped the other people at the WRO were by a little water in an otherwise easy repair, this is a subject that is valid.

Thank you Brent, for the message board. It is a good thing. It is not my intention to disrespect you or your product. I just have little patients any more. It is hard to get our customers, the insurance industry or anyone else to respect our product. A little (very little) extra time taken in the field could go along way to help us gain the respect we deserve. I hope that if we have a chance to talk in the future we can be friends.

[Mr Bill]

Is there a way to adapt a mighty vac so that it can attach to a windhiield via a suction cup and the user can vacuum out any moisture?

[Brent Deines]

Matt,

First of all, thank you for your professionalism both in the competition and on this forum. The windshield repair industry can use all the dedicated professionals we can get.

I did not take offense to your comments, I just disagree with you, and with SGT on this matter. I have a great deal of respect for Novus and for what they have done, and continue to do, for this industry. That said, I respectfully disagree with "some" of their methods, but I would say overall we agree on more than not. I have worked with several Novus trained technicians and learned a great deal from them when I was first starting out.

I did not invent the moisture evaporator we use, and Delta Kits does not manufacture it. In fact I was very skeptical about the tool and did not begin selling it until it had been sold by several other windshield repair suppliers for a couple of years and customers began demanding it. I use the moisture evaporator and recommend it because I am absolutely convinced it is the best tool for the job. As soon as someone shows me something that works better, that is what I will use and what I will recommend. Many other windshield repair suppliers and technicians agree with me on this, but not all. Since Delta Kits puts a money back guarantee on every product we sell, it makes no sense to try to sell something that doesn't work as advertised, so if nothing else, you know I believe in the statements I make. The moisture evaporator is available from many different sources which is why I feel I can talk about it as openly as I do. If it were a proprietary product I would be much more careful so as not to be accused of promoting a Delta Kits product on this forum.

I agree with you about taking whatever time it takes to do a good repair and I agree that not every repair can be done in 15 minutes, especially in cold weather. I have to stop short of saying that it "cannot be done", as I think there are many variables to consider, including the type of equipment and methods used.

One advantage I have over most technicians is that I have boxes and boxes of competitor's equipment to play with, have watched many windshield repair training videos and have read many windshield repair training manuals. Most windshield repair technicians have used one or two different systems, and believe in the system and methods they were trained to use. In fact that was the case for me until about 10 years ago when I went to work for Delta Kits. That's not a bad thing, but until you have been trained on "every" type of equipment and method, it is wise to keep an open mind. I don't claim to know everything and in fact learn a great deal from others every day, so although I believe in the products and methods I use, I am always keeping an eye out for something that is better.

One thing you and I will always agree on Matt, quality, quality, quality! I should include SGT in on this as well, as I have known very few repair technicians who have spent the amount of time and effort on research that he as. I think we are all on the same team here, and I think that the future of our industry depends on use working together to get others to jump on the quality band wagon.

[Nomad]

I wear glasses and the little cracks around the edges of the lenses get gunk in them over time and it looks bad and has always been a lot of work to clean out. But, I found that I could use my water pik tooth sprayer thing and get most all of the dirt out of the deepest crevices. Well, I wonder if this would work on long cracks to get the dirt out of one that has a lot of contamination? It's kind of like a little high pressure washer treatment. Of course then you have to make sure it's dry but it might make the more open cracks look a lot better if they are decontaminated.

No, I haven't tried this. Maybe this won't work and might cause problems, but I'd like to go to a junkyard sometime and find one that I could try. Wouldn't want to try it on a clients car until I tested it.

Any thoughts???

[harrellbenjamin]

Is there a way to adapt a mighty vac so that it can attach to a windhiield via a suction cup and the user can vacuum out any moisture?

The problem with the theory that vacume will remove moisture is this.Water is a liquid.To remove it from a pit the liquid(water) would have to be pulled in a vacume that lowers the boiling point so it would turn to a gas.Water will boil at approx 28-29 inchs of vacumeThis gas could then be evacuated by the vacume pump.A good grade commercial vacume pump used in refrigeration HVAC can only pull 29.7 inchs of vacume.A perfect vacume is 30 inchs and can not be acheived in atmosphere.Trying to use a mityvac or any similar device is a waste of time and money.It will not pull the inchs of vacume long enough to work.

[Brent Deines]

The problem with the theory that vacume will remove moisture is this.Water is a liquid.To remove it from a pit the liquid(water) would have to be pulled in a vacume that lowers the boiling point so it would turn to a gas.Water will boil at approx 28-29 inchs of vacumeThis gas could then be evacuated by the vacume pump.A good grade commercial vacume pump used in refrigeration HVAC can only pull 29.7 inchs of vacume.A perfect vacume is 30 inchs and can not be acheived in atmosphere.Trying to use a mityvac or any similar device is a waste of time and money.It will not pull the inchs of vacume long enough to work.

Amen. I've been preaching that for years but you said it much better than I could have.

[Mr Bill]

Thank you.
Isn't it great to share info?