Failed Windshield Repair

[screenman]

Surely if you break a bit in the damage which you cannot get out you would cahrge extra for the repair, why? steel reinforced.

Mr Bill you have still not answered my question, I was not being pertinant, just looking for your reasoning behind this. I do not move the drill around and I have not broken one for over 20 years. By wobbleing the drill around you are increasing your chances of it breaking, the bur we use in our industry were if I am correct not designed to be wobbled.

[Frank EU]

Yep, just leave it in there, like rebar / reinforcement steel
It looks like you've introduced a whole new add on service and you should charge the customer accordingly.

[CV Windshield Repair]

I have been repairing for 15 years and have yet to break a bit and I probably drill more than some. I never have moved the bit around instead keeping it as steady as I can with very little downward pressure, letting the bit do the work.

[GLASSTIME]

Screenman,
Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you a distributor for DK for EU.?

DK Training Video, As well as previous conversations with DK when I was just starting out reccomended 1st turning the frill to highest speed, 2nd using 2 hands insert drill running into glass and by technique slightly rotate the drill around as I was told that this helps open the hole as well as keeping the bur cool.
I was also informed to use some sort of "HEAT" or "Cigarette Lighter" to burn the tips of my burs after each e to help maintain there longevity!

If you are a supplier over there distributing DK product and yet your saying that its a NO, NO to rotate the drill in a circular motion while operating a drilling process than I feel Korey or Brent needs to chime in and explain what's reccomended by DK!....BRENT, KOREY? HELP!


Just want to make sure I'm doing the process right! Haven't had a bur to break (knock on wood) as I could only imagine the humiliation that comes with it.

[Brent Deines]

We originally recommended rotating the drill way back when drilling was typically to the laminate and tapered burs would stick in the hole just as the bur penetrated #2 surface of the glass, and if the technician was not extremely careful the bur would break, often leaving the tip in the glass. This was never an issue with round or pear shaped burs. Many years ago we stopped drilling to the laminate so wobbling the drill was no longer necessary with one exception.

When drilling the end of a long crack we recommend using an FG701 bur, and yes we recommend wobbling the drill as you drill to widen out the top of the hole slightly. There are two reasons for doing this. The first is that what we believe to be the perfect sized point for popping a mini bullseye at the end of a crack may come in contact with the sides of the drill hole left by the FG701 if the wobble technique is not used. This contact can chip the surface of the glass or even create tiny cracks around the drill hole so the wobble technique is still recommended. The second reason for wobbling the drill is that the slightly wider hole at the surface helps minimize the chance of air bubbles getting stuck in the drill hole.

You could use a larger bur and in fact we have been testing FG702 burs and will report our results soon. You could also use a smaller point to make the bullseye, but we have found that smaller points don't work as well, and in fact sometimes make the damage worse. Anyone who has used the Delta Kits slide hammer in conjunction with the FG701 bur and the wobble technique can attest to how perfectly the combination works.

Finally, while I no longer feel it is necessary to wobble except if I am popping a bullseye at the end of a long crack, I have heard from a number of customers who still feel more comfortable using the wobble technique. Reasons given include less chance of breaking burs, faster cutting action, and longer bur life. I don't have a problem with breaking burs if I don't wobble, and I have not noticed faster cutting or longer bur life, but in all fairness I have not done enough testing on this issue to know for sure.

Weather to wobble or not depends on the bur used, why you are drilling the hole, and personal preference, however if you have not tried wobbling with an FG701 and a slide hammer I highly recommend that you at least give it a shot on practice glass. It works unbelievably well.

As for screenman, what can I say. We don't see eye to eye on everything but for the most part the things we don't agree on are like this one, a matter of personal choice. I have heard plenty of great testimonials from the people he has trained so I'm not worried about minor differences of opinion. Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure drills spin in the opposite direction across the pond. Actually I just reread screenman's posts on this issue and I'm not sure what he said that was in disagreement. All I saw was a bit of tongue and cheek, but then again it has been a long day and I may have missed something.

In conclusion, if you are getting excellent results are not having any problems just keep doing what you are doing. However, if you are a Delta Kits user and you are having problems the only way I can help you is if you follow my recommendations. I hope this clarifies the position of Delta Kits in this matter.

[screenman]

My post was meant to get discussion on the matter and it has worked, I like the guy to not only do something but fully understand why they do it. Personaly using the FG701 and the slide hammer I have no need to wobble the drill around.

As Brent says personal experience and the amount of practise I have had may come into play. Also our electricity maybe quicker than yours, bit like our gallons being bigger.

[GLASSTIME]

Thank You Brent,
I wasn't saying that to say screenman said something wrong. I just wanted to make sure I heard correctly per my previous conversations with you guys on this topic.
I too only use the FG701 as I am comfortable with it the most. I get Great results and I have experimented with "Wobble" vs. Non "Wobble"
I have realized too that when I don't use such technique the slide hammer doesn't completely fit into the hole created as it does when the technique is used.

I do see now that it seems to be a personal preference! Or what your comfortable with.

[Nomad]

I agree with Brent all the way. I always wobble or orbit the rear end of the drill. I guess it's because that's the way I was taught. Also, I use a tapered burr and they will break if you don't orbit the drill, at least sometimes. I haven't broken one in many years. As Brent said, it depends on the type of burr used. I also like to think of it as literally grinding through the glass instead of drilling. If you are using a tapered burr, it will get progressively tighter as it goes deeper and jam and break if you don't wobble it. I have also had one break back when when I started when I tried to drill into a chip that was soft in the center because it was all broken, almost powdered glass from the impact. Remember that 15 or so years ago nearly everyone drilled a lot more.

[Mr Bill]

Surely if you break a bit in the damage which you cannot get out you would cahrge extra for the repair, why? steel reinforced.

Mr Bill you have still not answered my question, I was not being pertinant, just looking for your reasoning behind this. I do not move the drill around and I have not broken one for over 20 years. By wobbleing the drill around you are increasing your chances of it breaking, the bur we use in our industry were if I am correct not designed to be wobbled.

When I took the DK training and promptly broke the drill, I was instructed to do the "wobble" by Matt, as a way to avoid breaking the drill and having it remain jammed in the drill hole. Certainly if the hole is slightly bigger than the drill, the drill cannot be jammed.
I just use a a slight wobble. I dont want to make the hole too wide. I always felt that it made the glass cut better when I was drilling.
Next time I drill I will try it without the wobble and see what happens.
I am always open to suggestions.

[screenman]

I have just realised I use the FG2 bur, does anyone else use these? or have you tried them and disliked them.