Drying out repairs in the cold

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cazador

Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by cazador »

OK, Glassdoc, y're condemming alcohol to dry out wetted windshields , but not giving a solution to this problem.
What's YOUR method to attack wet windshields ???
Glassdoc
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by Glassdoc »

I am condemning mixing alcohol and resin. The two do not mix, and your repairs will ultimately fail.. All of the major suppliers/manufacturers sell their "own" type of dry out solution.. And while this works, someone stated that "these solutions contain alcohol". Maybe to an extent they do, but they have also been tested so that the formulation will not affect the structural strength of the resin. Then, there are the more hi-tech ways: Dry Star and the likes.. Old school, prior to any of these things being made available had us using lighters. Which effectively works, but also required the access to the inside of the vehicle and the need for keys to supply power to the lighter element. In between old school and high tech, someone tried a portable butane torch. It gives the operator better pinpoint heat placement and only takes about 20 seconds or so.. I use this method. If I suspect moisture is present, I will light my mini torch and in a 6 inch circular pattern around the break area will let the torch slowly heat up the glass to the point of when touched its just warm enough to feel almost hot but not too hot to touch. (if that makes sense). Overheating can and will result in more damage, whether the stone shot expands into a crack or, you simply overheat and damage the laminate. This is where lots of training, patience and professionalism comes in to play.. Knowing how much is enough without creating more damage. Some of you, when talking about the Dry-Stars and chemical moisture removers almost sounded like "its another expense, we do not need".. I'd bet you skimp on pit polish too. Fact is, the moisture must be removed. I have and use on occassion chemical removers.. However, I prefer a mini torch, its faster, I know it will be compatible with whatever resin I use, and when used correctly its 100% effective. Again, I urge each of you to try the resin alcohol test. You will see that, the alcohol does not have to be wet on the resin the mere fumes from the alcohol will turn your resin into a gooey paste that won't cure. Or if you have some resin build up on your injector (we've all been there), you know how hard it is to clean it off. Try disassembling the injector place it into an air tight bowl, and add just a little bit of alcohol in the bowl before closing and let sit overnite. You will see that the fumes will soften the old dried resin and make it easy to clean off. Another substance that will do this is ammonia.. use care when purchasing window cleaners.. Some contain ammonia, some contain alcohol. Sorry for the long posts, but its better to be said completely..
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by SGT »

Glassdoc,

6 posts and climbing. 3 more posts and you might be respected on the forum by those who count number of posts as a sign of experience.:)

Stick around awhile, the forum could use your point of view.
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cazador

Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by cazador »

Wow Glassdoc ,your walk-through is exactly the method I would prefer to follow to dryout wetted cracks : HEAT-IT-UP ! All those chemicals will have to some extend effect on the laminade and/or resin , as you stated so well.
Keep a crack as clean as possible , the less mess you have to work with.
Me going to work in the Houston, Texas area , have to wait 30 minutes after a rain shower and voila the sun starts drying the windshield quikly taking over the nessessity of using a torch. One of the many reasons I settled in Texas : LOTS of SUN .
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by screenman »

Whilst I advocate the use of the blow torch and on windy days the Drystar, I cannot see any reason to heat such a large area. This will just take longer to cool down. One of the advantages of the drystar is the alloy cooling ring that contains the heat to a smaller area. I use and train others to do the same with the blow torch. If you over heat and the crack runs you will find it stops as soon as it hit the cooler glass area. That is why in the drystar instruction's it tells you not to worry about the chip spreading as it will only go about an inch.

Novus instructed me to do a large area of heating in 1988 I feel I have only refined thier original idea. Why change 6 square feet of glass when only one square inch is damaged. Keep that heated area small and watch your dry out times shorten. It is imperitive that the glass is allowed to cool after drying out.

Mind you we only get wet screens on average 10 months of the year or more.So some people may get more practise than others.

I am not certified, (in the UK that would mean you are heading for a straight jacket), nor do I belong to any associations. Does that make me a bad tech I hope not.
33,000 + screen repairs over 18 years and still learning.
Over
Glassdoc
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by Glassdoc »

The reasoning behind heating a 6 inch circular area is simple. A: The torch is kept moving, my mini torch gets quite hot very quickly if held in one place for just a second.
B: By heating a 6 inch area you are less likely to cause severe expansion versus just heating the break area.. 6 inches of glass slowly expanding is far less likely to run than a 1 sq inch of glass that got hot..
C: Cooling, glass cools relatively quick. 6 inches will cool down almost as fast as a 1 sq inch hot spot will.. ( I utilize this time to load my injector)
D: Using this method, I have never had a windshield shot spread.. But, whatever works for the individual.
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by Garvey »

Well this sucks! I'm new to glass repair and if this thread is anything to go by I don't stand a chance I better pack my bags and get the hell out of dodge! The same was true when I started out in PDR and all the old time "VETS" sniggered and said "another one bites the dust" or "another lamb to the slaughter" Well guess what 6 years on and now i'm getting the bodyshop calls cos I won't back down because it never used to be repairable, with new techniques, new tools and to be honest a strong will these repairs can now be done.

This may seem off subject but it's all relative, it's true what was done in the past "the old school method" does work but you must embrace new idea's. This idea may or may not be a good idea but it should be embraced with warmth not hostility at least he's trying! You sound like he's taking food off your table!

You can ask screenman as he trained me, I am my own hardest critic and I push for the best repair possible on dents or screens. Yes i've only been doing screens for 3 months but i've been trying stuff off my own back seeing if it works on wholesale cars and I tell my customers if I'm not happy then I won't charge and I have not charged for repairs which we're far better than the stuff the so called "VETS" round here are bouncing out week in week out. I've even emailed screenman bouncing my idea's off him to see what he thinks some good, some bad.

Yes, we may be new and might not know as much as you but don't dismiss our ideas. Remember the "old school" house's where built with asbestos would you want that in your house now?? :frown:
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by SGT »

Guys I think this thread could get ugly. Maybe we should agree to disagree. I think in the end, old, new and in between technicians, what really is most important is that repairs are being done correctly. Structurally speaking as that is our primary objective. Right?

There is not just one right way to do this work, there are some ways that come from gaining expierence, that are better,quicker etc....but not the only way. For those who choose to reinvent the process, have at it, share here with us and we each can make a choice to apply it or dismiss it.

Get the structural down and the cosmetics will follow close behind.

Now you will have to excuse me, I am tearing our the asbestos in my house!:smile: :smile:
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by Glassdoc »

This may seem off subject but it's all relative, it's true what was done in the past "the old school method" does work but you must embrace new idea's. This idea may or may not be a good idea but it should be embraced with warmth not hostility at least he's trying!

Trying? Trying to do what? Again, check with your very own supplier, do NOT take my word for it.. Ask if alcohol and the resin you use in your repair process will mix.. Then come back here and explain how posting to do this is trying.. If he is trying to get everyone on the forum that reads his posts and believes it, to have failed repairs. Then I will agree, he is trying. I will gladly embrace new ideas, see post above that states I do go to continuous education classes.

I have not charged for repairs which we're far better than the stuff the so called "VETS" round here are bouncing out week in week out.

Again my point, who calls these guys VETS? I am saying to get the training, not a 20 minute video, and go out as a professional, not a hack. Too many shim sham repair guys out there. And for every bad repair they do, "we pay".. Those type of repairs and failed repairs will guarantee that the customer will not eve do a repair again.. Why bother? Its gonna fail, just bring me the new windshield... And again, I will emphasize.. If you or anyone else on here is not 100% confident in your repairs and yourself then do NOT go out and start calling yourself a repair tech.. Trainee? Wannabe? Whatever.. But not a tech..

Yes, we may be new and might not know as much as you but don't dismiss our ideas. Remember the "old school" house's where built with asbestos would you want that in your house now??

At some point all of us were new.. I have never met a "born" windshield repair tech. Being new is fine.. But be educated.. Do not second guess your supplier/manufacturer or system.. Just because you took chemistry in school does not make you a qualified chemist.. And mixing resins with alcohol, or resins with cleaners is just wrong.. Was'nt meant to be, probably was'nt on the instructional video, was'nt in the technical manual that came with your kit and isn't published any where that can be used as a reference to ok it. Diesel engines or the most part get 45-50 miles per gallon, would you mix diesel and gasoline in your Trans Am? Why not? I can tell you why not.. Because its your car and you do not want to mess it up.. Then why experiment with a resin that has proven to work, to make a short cut because alcohol is 79 cents a pint and a Dry Star costs $45 and up. Again, I can tell you why.. Because its not your car and you don't really care if something happens to it.. And that is a failed business attitude. First and foremost you need customers.. Secondly, you need repairs so great, that these customers will gladly give out your name. And the only way to achieve this, is excellent repairs and an attitude to treat their car better than you would your own. If I am wrong, prove it to me and show me up here in front of everyone.. Ask your resin supplier/manufacturer and copy and paste the email response they give you.. Hey,I am man enough to admit, I am not perfect.. But when it comes to my business, I run it just as close to perfect as it can be ran.. And, one more time.. I stand by my statement, that there is No Place for hacks in my neighborhood screwing up future business for me. Do it right or don't do it.. Simply put.
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Re: Drying out repairs in the cold

Post by GlasWeldTech »

Glassdoc,
Man I got to hand it to you as you know how to state the facts and help us to understand them as I try to do but can't pull it off as well as you. I enjoy your posts and your knowledge. Keep on posting here as most of us want to hear your advice.
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