Sealer or no sealer

[Brent Deines]

I know you headlight restoration guys and gals have covered this to some degree in the past, but it seems to me that most of you believe that it is very important to use a sealer after the headlight has been sanded. Are any of you adamantly opposed to the use of a sealer?

I have tested a few different systems to see what was the best on the market, and several other systems that I am still planning to test as time allows, but I am still confused about something.

This weekend I saw several demonstrations with varying results, and spoke to at least 6 different companies that sell headlight restoration products. Some say there is no need to use a sealer, and some say a sealer is necessary to get maximum protection. Some say if you use a sealer it needs to be solvent based, and others claim that only a water based sealer should ever be used on a headlight. I am now beginning to understand how truly confusing it is to new windshield repair technicians when they begin calling windshield repair suppliers. In fact, we had a number of people come by our booth that had been told it was impossible to fill a tight star break without drilling and/or impossible to completely fill a break without using vacuum as the first step. Seeing is believing, so it is easy to dispel those myths about windshield repair, but when it comes to how long a headlight will stay clear after restoration, I can't seem to find any proof.

There were two companies at the Mobile Tech Expo that did not recommend sealers, and one of those produced the best looking headlight restoration that I have ever seen. These are also two companies that I have been told supply many of the aircraft window restoration specialists. However "if" it is true that without a sealer the lens will yellow again within a few months, the cosmetic finish may not be as important as how long the finish lasts, at least for headlights.

For you guys that do use sealers, what do you think about spray on sealers vs paint on sealers?

Have any of you restored a headlight and then left it out in the weather for a few years to see what happens? If so, what did you use, and what were the results. Since some headlights seem to yellow faster right from the factory, I'm not sure even a test like that will be all that good of a test unless several products were tested at the same time on exactly the same make and model of headlight, but it would be a start.

I would like to endorse a headlight restoration product for my customers, but cannot do so unless I think it is the very best, and there are still too many unanswered questions for me.

I know a lot of you like the Develup system, so I was very interested in talking to those folks, but I went by their booth and no one seemed all that interested in talking to me. Two guys were sitting behind the table for about 10 minutes as I looked over their literature and watched their video, but neither made any attempt to find out what I wanted, so I got bored and moved on.

I would appreciate any thoughts from all of you experts out there, especially if you can back up your opinion with personal longevity testing.

[Chips-B-Gone]

Are any of you adamantly opposed to the use of a sealer?

There were two companies at the Mobile Tech Expo that did not recommend sealers, and one of those produced the best looking headlight restoration that I have ever seen. These are also two companies that I have been told supply many of the aircraft window restoration specialists. However "if" it is true that without a sealer the lens will yellow again within a few months, the cosmetic finish may not be as important as how long the finish lasts, at least for headlights.

For you guys that do use sealers, what do you think about spray on sealers vs paint on sealers?

Have any of you restored a headlight and then left it out in the weather for a few years to see what happens? If so, what did you use, and what were the results. Since some headlights seem to yellow faster right from the factory, I'm not sure even a test like that will be all that good of a test unless several products were tested at the same time on exactly the same make and model of headlight, but it would be a start.

Brent,
I do use the Dvelup system with the wipe on 2 part sealer. I am in favor of using the sealer that contains a UV inhibitor such as the Devlup system. I have done restorations that look pretty good without the sealer but without UV protection why waste the time and money. It's like going to the beach without using sunscreen on a high UV day..You would be fried.

I do have a couple of test lenses outside. I recieved them from a body shop. One I haven't done anything with as of yet. The other I restored 1/2 with the dvelup system about 4 months ago and left the other side alone. The untreated side is getting a little worse but the dvelup side looks great yet.

I have noticed during rain storms I have noticed that the rain drops bead off (like rain-x on a windshield) of the dvelup side but it only seems like it is being absorbed by the untreated side. The second lense I plan to strip and buff the whole lense and coat 1/2 with sealer for a second comparison.

As far as spray on coating goes, I am against it for a couple of reasons. First of all, there is a pretty good risk of overspray hitting the customers paint or even coming back to you or your customers to breathe in the fumes. So, this may be effecive if the lense is entirely removed from the vehicle which means more labor intensive and possible high prices for the customer which may be a turnoff.

Secondly, There is a local "delivery service" in my local area that I have already approached to do thier headlights. The head mechanic said he does it himself. He uses a green scotchbrite bad and spray on UV coating. I am here to tell you that they look horrible, especially at night. You can bet that the drivers use the brights all night long...I dropped pursuing this potential customer after I talked to a former employee about the financial aspects of the company (not very good at all).

Also, What I have noticed, by the time the lense does need to refinished the glue seal that is between the lense and the lense body starts to crack and potentially can allow moisture into the lense. When I reseal the lense I ensure that I also coat this seam to prevent and leakage into the assembly. This, in my opinion, could not be effectively achieved with a spray on sealer.

Brent, in reference to being ignored, I would call them directly at 888-350-2932. Ask for Sandy or Mimi. Either of these ladies will answer any questions you may have. I would be sure to tell them abouth the guys at the Expo.:eusa_snoo

I hope my rambling helps a little. Its getting late and I have been up about 20 hours.... Good night.:eusa_doh:

[mrchip]

Good thought provoking post Brent...if original h/l were coated with a uv blocker film to prevent them from turning yellow why wouldn't you need them after you cleaned them? ..their original film will last up to five yrs before the elements and harsh uv destroys them..hence our industry..so to clean them and not seal them would be a very temporary endeavor..my guess and what I have been told was under a yr before they would yellow..especially in the south where the uv is really strong..when i lived in N.j. I rarely saw discolored h/l.. when I moved south its all over the place..I have a h/l I cleaned with ips over a yr ago and is still great..now some guys use auto clear in a spray can and some apply with foam brush...it lokks great but auto clearwas not meant for plastic lens and after time it will start to peel..nano out of virginia has a spray that will last up 5 yrs..lots to ponder before you endorse a product...I want to use the best and give the best value I can to my customer for retail..if you charge retail customer 90 to 125 for h/l wouldn't you want it to last a long time..if you paid me that price and 6 months later they were turing yellow would you think you got a good deal?

[Brent Deines]

Thanks guys, this is exactly the kind of feedback that I was hoping for. I don't know if Delta Kits will ever get into the headlight restoration market or not, but even if we don't I would like to help my customers find other quality products that will help improve their business. I hope others will chime in as well.

My personal feeling so far is that a coating should be applied, but it has to be something that is proven to be compatible with the plastic. Apparently some of the new car manufacturers use a better sealer than others, and apparently it is a well kept secret.

I also think that getting the lens as perfectly smooth as possible before applying the sealer is important.

I may have mentioned this before but we purchased a new Nissan Altima in 1997, and the lenses did not yellow for almost 10 years, and even then were not all that bad. I would like to get the secret formula that they used! I polished out the lenses 6-9 months ago but did not use a sealer and now they are beginning to yellow again. Next time I will try a sealer, but which one? That is the million dollar question for me.

Our Altima has spent most of it's life outside in the elements, but in Oregon, which is probably not near as harsh as Arizona. Any thoughts on how much faster the Altima headlight would have yellowed in Arizona?

[Chips-B-Gone]

Next time I will try a sealer, but which one? That is the million dollar question for me.

Brent, I am pretty biased when I find a great product. I would say use dvelup. I believe they carry a small kit thet will do a couple of cars.

[mrchip]

Brent where you live is why it took 10 yrs to start showing haze...h/l start to deteroirate after 5yrs..some worse than others..also besides uv is harsh chemicals,solvents, play a role..thats why water base is better..you asked that in first post..so far there are 3 co that have a proven history..IPS,Dvelup,nano(John in Va.)..these will keep h/l clear for a long time..remember it is important to get old film off...many co's do not..in fact if you look on internet there is bookoo co's that promote h/l cleaning....bottom line you need to wet sand h/l with varying grits of paper....to many just do cover up quick fixes ..by the way I hope you had a good time in fla.

[gt_repair]

Brent
In the first post you posted:

There were two companies at the Mobile Tech Expo that did not recommend sealers, and one of those produced the best looking headlight restoration that I have ever seen. These are also two companies that I have been told supply many of the aircraft window restoration specialists. However "if" it is true that without a sealer the lens will yellow again within a few months, the cosmetic finish may not be as important as how long the finish lasts, at least for headlights

Will you tell us the names of these companies as long as we were not there?

I think I know the one that you said that they were the best you ever seen.. Maybe...

To answer your Q in AZ. I have found that I have only done lights from 1998 - 2002. OH wait....... one 2003 Nissan. Could have been a left over part from a 2002 if the body style hasn't changed.....

I think our lights do go bad faster than you up there in OR.

Think about your paint job in regards to using sealer or not... If you do not use a sealer the paint job will turn bad in no time. If you seal it and take care of it, you will have a good looking paint job and protected...

I think even with the sealer on the lights, you can apply it to thick and it may yellow compair to a super thin coat just for sealing and looks may last twice as long as long as they take care of them as in, When they polish there car, polish there lights in the same maner... That is what I have been telling my customers... And I did get that from DVLUP.

Don D.

[Bois]

Brent, I agree that a sealer is needed. I use the Dvelup system also. After wet sanding and buffing the lenses look good. But after applying the clear coat (1-1 mixture) the lenses look GREAT. IMO, the cleaned lenses need something to protect them. Otherwise, the lens is exposed directly to the elements.

I also find that most of the h/l's that I restore are on turn-of-the century cars (1998-2002) and usually on Pontiacs, Mustangs & Chrysler/Dodge vehicles.

While I use Dvelup's "Clear Wipe", I find that it dries out too quickly if not used up within 5-6 months. It's a container issue.

[Brent Deines]

The two companies are 3M and Micro-Mesh. The 3M headlight looked like new after it had been sanded. They won't actually be selling the system they used at the show until next month, but it did do a great job. Neither company actually told me that a sealer should not be used, they just told me they don't currently recommend a sealer. I got the impression that they just didn't think the products that are currently on the market were good enough yet.

Micro-Mesh does a lot with aircraft windows, and that is a whole different ball game, so I don't think they can recommend something until they can get the FAA to go for it, which is not an easy task.

I think 3M may be running into some of the same issues. They are such a large company that they cannot do some of the things that the little guys do and get away with it. They will need to get approval from every state to apply something the the headlights according to the rep I spoke with, and I don't doubt it a bit.

Small companies can do just about anything they want and get away with it...for awhile anyway. Some of our competitors can do things with windshield repair products that we cannot do, and we aren't even all that big yet. There are lots of products being shipped in the windshield repair industry as well as in the headlight restoration company that are not in accordance with FAA regulations. Maybe they will get caught, maybe they won't.

I should also mention that some of the little guys had products that worked very quickly, and probably did a good enough job for most people. The Headlite Doctor did a ton of demos, and claims to have a great sealer. I was impressed that he gave away so many samples and did so many demos. It means he believes in his products if nothing else.

There was another one that I thought had some potential, but also some drawbacks for the mobile guys. The part I liked was the the sealer was UV cured and not simply allowed to air dry. It was also sprayed on so it left a nicer finish than the other sealers that were being used. The potential problems were the over spray issue, especially on a windy day, and the UV light system was expensive and bulky. The supplier assures me that this issues can be addressed, so I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but that is why I am asking you guys. I'm no expert! This company's name is Headlight Restoration Professionals.

[gt_repair]

Bois

Use a little mineral spirts to thin it down when you think it is getting to thick. That is what they told me when I had the same problem and one can gelled up at a 1/2 a can... They did comp me for the can and told me what to do...

I also found not to shake the catalist when it is a older can. the crap in the can shakes all over and then you have black specs in your mix... I am going to try to see if I can put it in a plastic cantaner so I don't waste any. unless it eats through the plastic. Not sure at this time.

Brent
Thank you for letting us know who the companies are.

Don D.