computer based WR kits -worth the money?

[maxryde]

Comment:
I am not going to drag this out either on that other guy that went with that other system...... I like it that Brent has it a little more laxed as long as we do not abuse it. and the long time members know the line to walk. I can read on the newbies that don't no the line as of yet. But time will teach them also.

Maxryde:

I am using the Resinator Q.T for Vert. repairs. It might be that I am just so used to the GT and the speed and results I can do with that on a regular repair... The LR takes so long to do a repair and so many cycles. It could just be me.....

I can see the differance in repairs even on regulars with the two of them side by side same style of break. The GT is faster and a better job that I can see..


Oh Well

So I wonder Don, do you utilize the mity-vac when useing the LR system. I was asking because if you are, and still see a faster repair with the GT stuff then that is impressive, at least to me. Thx, Scott

[windshield]

Hello.Just buy a small vac/compressor and connect the cables to the propper fittings.Thats all!There you have a decent piston with good vacum and pressure.Godd luck.

[lordstanley13]

I seen one a week ago at a tent location I drove by. The same person I was talking about the Aquapel in my other subject line. It looked like a pretty cool setup, but like you said StarQuest, I am not sold on the 4,000 price tag. Especially when times are tight as it is....

[Brent Deines]

We looked into offering this type of system several years ago, but little things like how you do five repairs at a time in different parts of a parking lot with no power source kept haunting me. There were also issues of maintenance, cleaning, and of course cost that kept us from going down that road. Other than at trade shows, I rarely see them in the field.

As for speed, you can be done with a simple bullseye using a manual system before you even get the machine based system set up. We prove that over and over again at trade shows.

Still, we probably would have jumped on the band wagon if the finished quality of the repair was better, but I have not found that to be the case either. I'm sure others, especially the manufacturers of machine based systems, will disagree, but again, it's pretty hard to refute the results when working side by side at trade shows, and it is very easy to compare the speed and the quality of the finished repairs there.

At the end of the day, all that matters is how completely the breaks (all types of breaks) can be filled, and how fast they can be filled, in that order.

[gt_repair]

Scott
With the Spectum You use 4 drops of resin, Pull back on the plunger for 30 seconds for a vac and turn the injector to pour in the resin still under vac for about 30 or so sec. then put under presure for about 3 - 5 min. or so and if needed, one more cycle.

I am not preaching on the GT, but I was amazed when I bought it and tryed it. To me it was worth it.

The fastest repair I had to do at a rental account was 3.5 min from the time I put the tools on the car and was off before it was on the road rented. I used LV resin to get it done in that time frame.

Foot note: I do not claim I do fast work, but that was all they gave me on the job to get it on the road. They were shocked I was able to do it that fast and look good also. It was a made house that day on that account....

I normaly do not rush any of my jobs. I am done when it is done.

I hope I do not get any flack for doing a quicky.

[screenman]

I am sorry but I think the GT to be over complicated equipment, doing simple repairs in that time scale is not down to the equipment as 20 years ago we were demonstrating that sort of thing and still can with plastic injectors. A $30 mityvac will turn most systems into a high vacuum one if that is what is required. As for giving maybe a higher pressure this is something that is certainly not required when dealing with something a delicate as broken glass, far more important to use a quality resin. Why Is there the need to draw a 30 second vacuum at the start of the repair, as there is no resin yet in the break surely a 2 second vacuum has the same effect, I await enlightenment on this question as the answer has always eluded me. As for their bridge that is naff now that is just my opinion. The need to push the bridge onto the glass quite hard to get a seal is not in keeping with the delicate touch we sometimes require, much better to have something you can gently rest on and then increase the suction, like both of the Delta systems. I think one of my sad hobbies is seeing what I consider design faults in windscreen repair equipment. The Esprit system over here has you screwing the injector down to lift 2 feet of the bridge off the glass which shuts up most breaks nicely and makes for harder and less effeicent filling specialy on combination,s. Well done that designer who most likey had never repaired a chip.

[Brent Deines]

The problem with a Mightyvac or any other type of high vacuum equipment designed to be used prior to injecting resin into the break is that unless their is only one crack or chip that reaches the surface of the glass you are simply pulling air into the break from all of the damage that does reach the surface. Even on a simple bullseye, which is typically the only type of break that meets that criteria, the moment the vacuum is released the air is back into the break. Think about it for a minute, if high vacuum was the answer, the dime store syringe and pedestal method would be the best system on the market as they are capable of tremendous amounts of vacuum, and I don't think anyone here will argue that is the case.

If you use too much vacuum once the resin is in the break, you will pull resin right along with the air. Using a lot of vacuum gets a lot of people excited, but there is simply is no science to back all of the claims that are made about it. If you think about it in very simple terms, a brake bleeder (which is all the mightyvac is, will only work if the system is leak free. If you have a leak in the system, you will always introduce more air into the lines.

I'm sure I'll take some grief for this one, but I have spent a great deal of time and money working with engineers who specialize in fluid dynamics to figure out what works and what does not work, and it always comes down to this. If you got all the air out the first time, there would be no need for a second vacuum cycle, and "every" system I have ever seen, and I think I have seen and even tested most of them, recommends a second vacuum cycle.

Whatever system works best for you is the one you should use. I know not everyone will prefer a Delta Kits system, and that is fine, but most people do not hire engineers to evaluate the products they are planning to purchase, so they are unfortunately at the mercy of the equipment suppliers, some of whom are very honest, and some of whom make absolutely ridiculous claims about what the equipment does and how it does it.

The problem is that many windshield repair technicians do not try, or even watch a demonstration of a system prior to purchasing it, so they never have anything to compare with, and most windshield repair technicians never try more than two or three different systems in their entire career. Even if they do, I find that they will try to apply methods taught or learned with one system to another system. You just can't do that with any success, which is why most technicians will swear by the system they learned with unless they have a very open mind and are willing to set aside their pride and are willing to be trained on something completely different.

As I keep saying over and over again, the very best way to compare systems is to see them all in action side by side. The truth is always revealed at that point. Could that be why fewer and fewer manufacturers demonstrate their equipment at trade shows? Just food for thought.

[screenman]

Brent I agree with you about the vacuum I was only using the Mityvac example to show how any system could pull a vacuum the same as the GT can for less expense if that is what was required to do a quality repair. We had a large starbreak to do today in practise and we set the system up and went and had a coffee, came back and all was full no vacuum required . The trainee said as far as he was concerned he only needed to drink coffee on every job to do quality repairs. Did not work quite as well on the next job though.

[Brent Deines]

That's a good point. While I always recommend pulling a vacuum to be sure there is no air trapped anywhere within the break, if the legs of the star break go to the surface the resin can flow to the ends without any vacuum.

I guess that was kind of my point. If you pull a strong vacuum on a break that has cracks that come to the surface the result could be the opposite of what was intended.

I think that was why my wife is so good at repairs. She lets it sit in the pressure cycle for considerably longer than I do, which often reduces the number of cycles needed to completely fill the repair.

If you put a vacuum pump on a long crack for instance, you will never develop much vacuum as it will continually draw air from the surface. That is why you cannot get a vacuum style suction cup to hold to the glass if positioned over a crack.

[screenman]

Some of the common causes for legs not filling are.

Moisture.
Premature curing, more common than you would think this one.
Trapped air, this would flow back through resin when pressure released.
Unconnected leg, this would need connecting by flexing or popping.

I would say most starbreak legs are subsurface, I also would never use a vacuum on and damage that has extending legs to the surface, Unless no I will not go there it will take to long.

This lot mad esence when I wrote it, not so sure now its been a hard day.