Flameless Butane Heat Gun

[anythingclose]

While I was searching for a drying method which didn't require a cord, I came across an item called a "Flameless Heat Gun" and it was powered by butane. I wasn't sure if posting a link was OK or not, but do a google search for "flameless heat gun butane" and you should come across a few different models. The important thing (in my opinion) is that they seem to have a wider output, and thus would not concentrate the heat on such a pinpoint area as a typical butane torch would. I haven't had the opportunity to test this yet as I only ordered my tools a day or two ago, but was wondering if anyone had ever heard of/used something like this before. I don't know if all the models you'll find if you search on google are the same, like the drystar tool seems to be, but at least one of them mentioned infinitely adjustable temperature controls. This seems like an excellent thing to me, given if you set it extremely low, you would have less risk of overheating the repair, similar to how the drystar tool is designed only to reach 160 degrees. The main problem I had with the other butane torches, is that it seems if you adjust them to their lowest setting, it becomes more like a simple cigarette lighter, with a flame that would be vertical, like a match, instead of a jet which is easily directed, which would make using it on the outside of a windshield difficult. But if this heat gun directs heat simply from an element, like radiant heat (maybe it is somehow radiant heat?) then the heat would be more easily directed.

Any thoughts?

PS - Also, my original plan for practicing was to visit junkyards and do the repair on site to vehicles with already damaged glass. I figured no one would pay for a windshield that was already damaged, so I'd just throw them a few bucks and work right out there. The longer I peruse these forums however, I find that if I come across a new technique or idea, I'll want to test it first and having to go all the way back to the junkyard might be tiresome. So with that in mind, what sort of a mount or frame do you use to hold practice windshields? Also, do you use an actual windshield for practice or just pieces of laminated glass?

[t4k]

Sounds interesting. I've seen leather repair guys use these tools to do leather repair. Keep us posted if you try one.

[screenman]

I have tried these a couple of times and have not found them to work very well, the micro one's that is. The drystar is an excellent tool and the blowtorch which even on full flame, jet like is infinately adjustable are the 2 we find by far the most succesful. I like to pinpoint my heat when drying out, I can see no benefit at all in heating an area larger than the break itself.

[anythingclose]

Hmmm.

I don't have a drystar, but I have heard some people compare it's heating element size to that of a cigarette lighter. If this is the case, that wouldn't be any bigger than the heating element on this "flameless heat gun" from the images/videos I've seen. Screenman, I have read some of your posts and you have used the drystar if I'm not mistaken. Does that pinpoint heat or is it more broad, like a car cigarette lighter? Also, when you use a torch, are you holding it some distance away from the glass so as not to get it too hot or do you hold it right up close to the glass but for a shorter time?

I think ultimately, I'll just have to test a few different techniques on many a practice windshield, to see what I can control the best. No matter how good the advice is, I'll have to experiment with the boundaries myself and make sure I know what will damage/cause crack out and what won't. I have read a lot about this subject on these forums, and it seems that no clear consensus has been arrived at but that instead, each person has his or her own techniques.

Oh, and the moment they come out with a drystar that uses batteries, I'll seriously consider one, but unfortunately the rest of my kit is completely portable and I feel silly buying an expensive battery pack for one tool.

[Brent Deines]

I doubt if you will see a battery operated Drystar anytime soon. Heating elements, even very small ones require a fair amount of energy so even if you were running several D-Cell batteries you probably would not get enough power to last very long.

The heating element in a Drystar is just like a cigarette lighter heating element, but will stay hot as long as the button is pressed whereas the second you remove a cigarette lighter from the socket it begins to cool. The main reason the Drystar moisture evaporator works so well as that it heats to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, the boiling point for water, so the moisture in a break evaporates within seconds. If you check the back side of the glass when you are finished with a 20 second recommended Drystar application you will find that it really is not all that hot. Because of the small area being heated, about 1" in diameter, the outside of the glass cools quite quickly as well. It takes the guess work out of drying out a break.

Unfortunately heating to 160 degrees does not bring the water in a break to boiling temperature, so you will have to heat the glass far longer to get the same result. Even though you are heating at a lower temperature, the inside of the glass will get hotter and there will be a larger hot spot when you are finished because of the time involved.

Torches certainly have plenty of heat, as do electric heat guns, but both are a bit more difficult to master and can cause a great deal of damage if used improperly so I don't recommend using them. I have discussed this issue with screenman and many other technicians for whom I have a great deal of respect and I understand their arguments, but I still think the Drystar is a far safer and more effective solution for everything except long cracks. When it comes to drying out long cracks the Drystar simply is not practical. That is when I pull out my heat gun with a tip that concentrates the heat into an area about 1/4" in diameter and carefully, carefully use it to remove moisture from the crack. When running fully mobile with no place to plug in my extension cord I have also used a torch to remove moisture from cracks, but this is always a last resort. It does work, but you better know what you are doing or you may be buying your customer a new windshield. If you are going to use a torch or heat gun, practice, practice, practice! As a side note, cracks do not contain a lot of moisture (one drop can fill several inches), so it does not take long to remove the moisture from a crack once the proper temperature is reached.

I also think it is important to distinguish between warming the glass for better resin flow and heating the glass for moisture removal. I agree with screenman that you don't want to super heat any larger area of the glass than absolutely necessary, generally that would be the overall size of a break less any cracks, but just to be clear, the windshield should always be warm before you apply any sort of moisture removal technique. Applying heat to cold glass with a moisture evaporator, heat gun, or torch can all cause the glass to break. If the glass is cool or cold be sure to warm up the area several inches around the break before proceeding with the moisture removal process. If you can warm the entire windshield, so much the better.

[anythingclose]

The reason I mentioned 160 degrees was because as I have been reading through the forums, from oldest to newest, I came across a topic wherein the inventor of the drystar came here for a little Q&A. In that thread, he mentioned that he wanted a tool with low heat because it was safer. He mentioned his tool only heated up to 160 degrees, and that while that wasn't enough to boil water, it certainly was enough to rapidly speed evaporation. Water will evaporate even at room temperature given enough time and a dry enough atmosphere surrounding it. The hotter/dryer the atmosphere is around it, the faster this will occur. While I don't know exactly what his intentions were when inventing the drystar, I believe he intended it not to boil the water necessarily, but instead to simply speed the evaporative process that would occur naturally in a dry/hot enough environment where no additional moisture was being introduced.

That being said, I did contact the manufacturer of the tool in question (flameless butane heat gun) and was told that among other things, the butane is forced across a platinum coated element which heats up without any flame whatsoever, and because of this, can be turned down to a lower temperature setting than a typical torch style. Anything that is on fire has a pretty high minimum temperature, well above 212 degrees, but because this is a different type of device, it can be turned down lower. Now, before I use this item on ANY customer's windshield, I am going to practice, practice, practice. As part of my testing, I will measure the temperature of the lowest setting and post my results here. The main reason I like this tool is that IF it puts out heat from a radiant element (like the drystar) and IF that heat is the same temperature as the drystar (or can be adjusted to match) and IF the front of this tool is roughly the same diameter as the drystar's element area, then it would nearly match the drystar's capabilities,but in a purely portable form.

Taken from the post: viewtopic.php?t=3573
It's the 5th from the top, in case you go read that topic.

(3) Using radiant heat versus convection heat, radiant heat is more controled.
Remember, water boils at 212 degrees. (open flames reach much hotter temps,depending on the color of the flame and fuel used).So less then one drop of water at 212 degrees would all most instantly evaporate. So at about 160 degrees it would take less then one drop of water aproximently 20 seconds on average to evaporate.Less heat and more time duration = safer dryout .(hence 20 seconds). The higher temps. reached by open flames causes much higher risks to spread the break. If water evaporates at 212 degrees and at less temp then that if I increase the duration, why would I use temps. in the thousands from an open flame? and decrease the window of forgiveness? Radiant heat is more user friendly for this application.

I will do much testing with this tool and report my findings here, in case anyone is interested in it's possible use in the WSR field.

Regarding heating for moisture removal or resin flow, I only plan to use heat for moisture removal, or in a more general sense, to warm the windshield on cold days. For warming the windshield on cold days I will not use a butane torch, of course. As far as warming to improve resin flow, I do not believe I will be doing this, but understand the differences between the two reasons to apply heat. Rest assured I will do a lot of testing before I ever use a technique on a customer's windshield. I want to be able to state confidently and truthfully that my repair work is among the best in the business. I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less, and I appreciate all the advice and tips given here because they will only serve to make me more aware and knowledgeable.

[screenman]

In answer to your questions, yes I use a drystar at times, no it does not pinpoint the heat but still only warms a small area. I also vary the amount of heat I hit the shield with by holding the blowtorch further from it. You original question asked if anyone had used anything like the tool you mentioned and I gave my answer to will not go over that again.

In your desire not to carry a small $40 power source what have you decided on for UV? and have you tested it to be the best for curing or the best for carrying?

[anythingclose]

I am trying to keep my kit 100% portable, if possible. Personally, I feel it is more professional if I don't require anything from my customer except that he provide the vehicle which needs repair. I know it may seem like a small thing, but it is a question of professionalism to me, and I believe it matters a great deal. I feel that if I advertise mobile service, done on location, that I want to be able to complete that job even if I show up and their car currently has a dead battery, or something else which might prevent 12v tools from being an option. The thought to purchase a drystar and a 12v battery pack came up, as that was going to be my last resort option if I couldn't find a powerful enough UV source that ran on batteries.

Based on the recommendation of the guys at Delta Kits, I went with the entirely portable work light that runs on multiple C cell batteries. I believe it is the 40-12 sold on Delta Kits site. Brent informed me he used this light for quite some time, and considered it the only battery powered light he would recommend as a primary UV source in curing. I know that light was more expensive than the other options, and it will carry a higher operating cost because of the need to replace batteries. But I want portability, and I am unwilling to sacrifice quality to achieve it. So if I can find tools which are portable, and do the job of the corded tools equally well, then I will use the cordless options. If I cannot, then I will reluctantly haul around a battery pack or generator.

[Frank EU]

To use any of your customer's things, aiding you in performing your work, is not good, any tech should always bring his/hers own stuff.
Just use the 12Volt battery pack and 12Volt Dryer, you will be as pleased as we are. We are Repair Only and fully mobile, all stuff is 12Volt.
Why not fixing an additional 12Volt power point in the back of your car/truck and use an extension cable (DK web site: A303 EXTENSION CORD, 10' COIL, $8.80).
We both have additional power points fixed, but also two batteries in any vehicle. Just in case.

[screenman]

I was not suggesting you use the customers power, just that a nice neat and tidy 12v power sytem is not much to carry around. In fact all my tools and power source fit into one nice and tidy tool box on wheels, which allows me to have everything I need at a nice easy height. Personaly I prefer the 40-14 light.