Water Soluble Resin

[Starbrite]

Seen one of the resin suppliers is promoting this. Anybody have experiences using this product? I haven't and not sure that I would. Just asking!

[usmc68]

Makes me wonder how a company could offer a wonder product that would positively combine with ALL the many types of resins on the market. Sounds like snake oil. Call Delta and buy a proven Dry Star and spend 30-60 seconds to dry them out.

[Starbrite]

The company offering this is well known and products used by many (not me) but I find their ad and claim interesting...that's all I have to say! If you have personally used it..respond! If not, your input is irrelevant.

[usmc68]

Let me get this right, you ask a question about a product you have never used, I respond with my thoughts, and you tell everyone my post is worthless? Do you know anything about the owner of that company-I do. BTW, they can't be mentioned here, so I won't. Are your initials RC? Have a lovely day.

[Brent Deines]

Are you talking about water displacing resin? Most quality resins displace water, much like oil does, but under enough pressure oil will contaminate water and vice versa. If the water really is completely displaced and no mixing at all occurs, where does it go? There are only two possible places it can go. One, it can be pushed out to the edges of the damage, which is obviously not a good thing as bonding strength is needed there, or two, it can be be removed through the injector seal. If removed through the injector seal, where does it go? When you finish a repair are you dumping water out of your injector?

If you are talking about a resin that mixes with water, the resin is being diluted, unless of course you believe there is something in the resin that chemically changes water into resin, which any chemist will tell you that is not possible.

Here are some basic science tests you can do at home. Take a few drops of resin and put it in a cup with an equal number of drops of water. What happens? Now swirl or shake the container. What happens? Does the water disappear, float, sink, or mix with the resin? Now try to remove the water from the container without removing the resin. Is the water drinkable? It should be if it was not contaminated by the resin. If the water is contaminated, then is the resin not contaminated also?

I'm not trying to bash a competitor's product, just trying to get technicians to think logically about resin chemistry. There's nothing new about resin that displaces water, but in my opinion the damage still needs to be dried out for best results.

I know the intent of the post was to get feedback from those who use a particular resin which is fine, but I wanted to throw this in because I felt the title of the topic was unintentionally deceptive. Water soluble resin would be resin that is soluble in water, and correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think anyone wants a resin like that.

[Starbrite]

usmc68,

I apologize for the sarcasm, long day at Tigers opening in Detroit...few to many hot dogs and other beverages. Being a newbie here I'll try to be more respectful of others opinions, including yours. Can we wipe the slate clean and start over? I'm on here to learn and gather viable information from others. Sorry for the insensitive reply.

Brent,
Thanks for your input and explanations. I can understand how a manufactured resin could mix with water but that water has to eventually evaporate, leaving a void in the repaired damage, wouldn't it? I was just hoping somebody that tried this resin could respond to experiencing these results.

[usmc68]

Starbrite,
Yeah, we're cool. I've made posts like yours before after too much brew on other sites.
Just remember, if you are interested in that company, (not named by me), to turn around from your computer and run like the wind!!!! This is just what I believe. I might be wrong.

[usmc68]

You should have noticed that no one else has posted-making sense now? Good luck with your business!

[bpdenverco]

Had to weigh in on this one.
My first impression, from reading the response's is. WHAT WATER SOLUBLE RESIN, NO WAY. some said snake oil ????.
Did you guys know, their are now water soluble oil based paints, well anyway.
Yes Virginia, their are water soluble resin's. Now I dont know of any being used for WSR, But the properties of these, water based resins, would be a good candidate for WSR. But who knows Delta, may carry such a product next year. DOW and a list of others, make these resins. Here is a sample of one. Now this one would be perfect for WSR, you can mount small bugs to your glass..LOL. Now if a resin on WSR could absorb the water and make it mix better, instead of trapping a bubble, and if it freeze's. Will it do less damage to the glass..I dont know.....

Dimethyl hydantoin formaldehyde resin dissolved in water or in 70 ml ethyl alcohol+30 ml water is put forward as a solution suitable for the mounting of insects, small Crustacea, &c. Its chief advantage over other water-soluble resins is its high solubility in water, its excellent adhesion to glass, its low viscosity even in high per- centage solutions, and its hardness on drying.
PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL DA T A
Colour: water-white to pale amber. Odour: faint. Form: brittle lumps. Molecular weight: 240-300.
Initial softening point: 59° C-8o° C. Free formaldehyde: approximately 0-3% in aqueous solution. Solubility in water: solutions up to 80% may be prepared with ease and
filtered. pH of solution: 6-5-7-5. Soluble in methanol, ethyl acetate, methyl ethyl ketone, methylene chloride. Insoluble in xylene, benzene, diethyl ether, carbon tetrachloride, trichlor-
ethylene. Supplied by Rex Campbell, 7 Idol Lane, London, E.C.3.

[Brent Deines]

The description of soluble as is stated in Merriam Webster's dictionary is, "susceptible of being dissolved in or as if in a liquid and especially water". By definition, if a water soluble resin is injected into a break it will dissolve, thereby losing all of its adhesive qualities.

There are water based adhesives, and have been for quite some time, however the reason acid based resins are typically used in the windshield repair industry is because the acid etches the glass, which in turn helps strengthen the bond between the resin and the glass. Delta kits and other manufacturers sell "acid free" resins, but they tend to have a lower adhesive tensile strength on glass than our acid based resins and are not necessarily water based.

I think the title of this topic is a bit confusing. Unless I am way off my mark, the original post was referencing the advertising of waterproof resins. Waterproof means impervious to water. Typically only a solid is waterproof. You can paint a waterproof coating on a piece of wood, but only when it dries will the wood be waterproof. If you try to paint it on under water you will not have much success. There are some epoxies and putties that can be applied under water, but low viscosity liquids need to cure, harden, or dry, before they become truly waterproof. If not allowed to dry before exposing to water, performance will be negatively affected. For instance, regardless of whether you use water based paint or an oil based paint, you would never dump in a gallon of water in with a gallon of paint prior to using it to paint your house or car.

This leads us to water displacement. Some liquids, many windshield repair resins included, will displace water, which is what I addressed in my first post on this topic. I don't mean to split hairs, but I think the terminology is important in this case.