D.A.R.E and Chipio

[screenman]

I have never seen a surface chip crack out, that is a new one on me.

[sunshine wr]

I have never seen a surface chip crack out, that is a new one on me.

me neither

[DryStar]

I would like to research the criminal cases that Farmer's insurance have publicised and see how the actual "charges" are described in the indictments. What actually constitutes fraud? Is it in what the salespeople are saying to customers or are they repairing surface chips that don't need it? I've been trained to know the difference, for the most part, but does anyone actually know when a surface chip doesn't need repair? I've seen surface chips, that I would have ignored, actually crack out. So, where is the standard in determining the scope of "preventive maintenance"?

If you were actually trained to know the difference between a surface chip and one that needs attention, you wouldn't be writing this post. People get surface nicks on their vehicles body paint often but do insurance companies cover this? No they don't. It's considered normal wear. The same goes with windshields. All those little nicks are considered normal wear and they won't cover them. If your billing insurance for these...it's wrong. I like others that posted, have never seen a surface chip crack out!

[glassdoctor]

Surface chips cannot crack out, and more than a wiper scratch can.

Sometimes there can be a nearly invisible star.... hiding under what appears to just be a surface chip. Closer inspection will show if there is anything that needs repair. Pressing on the chip will flex and open up any type of crack, so you can see it. Usually, it will be a simple line crack, about 1/2" or less. If you push on the chip with a scribe point and see nothing, it's just a surface chip and there is nothing there to repair, nor anything there that could crack out.

There isn't a grey area where you can't tell for sure if there is actual damage to repair. It's black and white. Either there is a subsurface damage or there is not. The only grey area is how you sell it to the customer, if it's only a surface chip. I have been asked to repair them, even after explaining that it's only cosmetic and I do not believe there is any risk of the chip spreading, etc. Sometimes people are just picky or they think they know better.

But... I wouldn't bill a surface chip "repair" to the ins co. It has to come out of the customer's pocket imo

[blind_squ]

Thank you glassdoctor, you have described the process I perform whereas I flex the surface chips to see if it will open and wink at me. This is how I determine what needs repair.
Also, I have seen, albeit rarely, surface chips that I had ignored, "crack out". Maybe 3 times in 14 years but don't anyone dare say that surface chips never crack out.
After careful reading and consideration of the posts offered here, I''ve come to the conclusion that the insanity and anxiety of this rock chip repair business is centered on a dependence of having insurance pay for a service that they shouldn't. In fact, I see it as stupid.
And then these conmen and leeches at car washes carry it all even further but convincing people they should use their insurance, which impacts their claim history, (see C.L.U.E. Report posting by SGT) to "get something for nothing" when anyone in their right mind, that grasps the concept of preventive maintenance, should be glad to pay out of pocket. AND if they don't have 25 to 50 dollars to pay for this service, they truly can't afford it and certainly don't need to risk being put into a higher rate class because of the claim. FYI, even a towing claim affects your "rate class".
This addiction to the networks that so prevails in this business is manipulated by these same networks to control what you get for your service. Hats off to Mike Burstein for doing it right! His website says in bold face type, "We do not bill insurance companies"!

BTW, I charge 10.00 for cosmetic surface chip repairs, although this type of discriminating customer is rare, there are a few who care about every little nick on their glass or paint. Almost always the high end cars.

[glassdoctor]

Simply pointing out the facts. Not to be lost, is that these "nearly invisible" stars are very rare. You don't see them every day. I inspect 100's of cars every week at dealers, and I do find these on occasion, by checking out suspicious surface pits. But it's not common. +99% of breaks have damage that is clearly visible.

So the key point is that a surface pit can't be considered damage requiring repair 99% of the time. So, if someone has a practice of selling surface pits as requiring repair, it's fraud IMO.

[blind_squ]

Without a doubt, it is fraud. We are constantly assaulted by mechanics and repair techs of every stripe trying to sell us (they call it upselling) things we simply don't need. This type of fraud permeates the service/repair industry. The hardest thing to find is a mechanic that will "fix your car' not trying to con you things you don't need. They especially prey on women and elderly. I call it the "stupid test". First thing they do is find out how stupid you are. You go in needing a radiator hose and the guy says, "well, Mr. Jones, we checked it out and you need your engine replaced, it'll be around 8 grand, do you want to pay by check or use your credit card". If you're stupid, and trust me they are out there, you'll just whip that card right out. Further, they call you the next day, saying your car is ready and your car has a new radiator hose. Maybe that's a bit exagerated, maybe not.
IMO, the fact that the networks and insurance companies don't do more to find and prosecute these crimes is a "possible" indication of collusion and deception by the networks themselves. "They" could stop it if they really wanted to, so there must be a reason why it continues to occur.

[glassdoctor]

Yeah, it's not right for sure. But it's small potatoes compared to some other examples like mechanics and locksmiths. Anyone see the dateline episode on the locksmith hacks? It's disgusting.

[Eco Steam]

My area has been saturated with "no name needed", and the unfortunate thing is they're driving the prices down and causing others to advertise for lower amounts. I no longer work with the Networks or Insurance Co. Simply because we went from doing 25 to 50 a week (ins), slowly declining to just a couple a week, to 1 a month, to 1 every 3 months!. Why? Well the answer is simple, when we were getting the 25-50 a week (ins), they were setting up at 1 or 2 locations, then 4, 10, 20, now it seems they're at 50+ locations, in addition to others doing, car washes, tint shops, glass shops, etc.... You can drive down the road here and you're guaranteed to find a repair person setup every few miles.

We still stick with our prices and we focus more on upselling our detail/HLR clients. Hopefully this will blow over and they will go away....dunno though.

It is what it is and we just deal with it.

I do find their job postings on Craigslist a little funny though. They advertise the job as Promotional Event Workers, or something like that.........

[candyman]

Three years ago I didn't know you could repair a headlight or WS and it wasn't available in my area. Now, every glass replacement shop in my area is doing repairs and advertizing it. I now see people doing HLRs at local detail shops and some dealers. Maybe I should not have advertized so heavy and put flyers out everywhere. I created my competition and lost some of my market. I still see plenty of work. I never had more than a dozen insurance jobs per month. Almost all of my business is cash customers and most dont file insurance claims. Even in this small town, I still see plenty of people needing my service. Its still a matter of educating people about these repairs & restoration. Many of the 16 to 40 year olds here dont listen to the single radio station or read the local newspaper. Reputation and referrals are the source of the majority of my business. If you do good work you will stay busy. Keep working your market. I am always selling wheather Iam at a detail shop, or having dinner with my wife. I carry my business cards and place them on any vehicle that I see that may need one of my services. You never know when someone will call. I dont sit by the phone either. I have my mobile number, fax and web listed on the card. A person saw a flyer I posted six months ago, called and scheduled three headlighht restorations and a WSR for this week. Your ground work will pay off. I do have the qucik polish guys in my area now, but the word gets out fast about shoddy work and they move on. It must have been nice to do 50 WSR per week. The local WS shops dont do that well here. The bigger cities do. I send several each week to them for replacement.