repair rule #1

[desertstars]

Clean the damaged area before doing anything else.

I would say that this is particularly important in older damage except that I think it is important in all cases.

Road oil, wax, cleaning additives, RainX and normal conaminants can and will make a difference as to the quality of your repair or even the ability to repair properly in the first place.

The doctor doesn't care whether you just stepped out of the shower. He will still swab your arm with alcohol before jabbing you with a needle.

(If he doesn't, check his credentials. He probably obtained his medical degree from an Indonesian island.)

[CPR]

Hey DS, what is your choice of cleaners ?

[glassdoctor]

Hey, i ain't swabbin nobody's arm with no alcohol, or jabbin no needles, man! Whats you talkin bout, desert?........

[desertstars]

Calling glassdoctor for CPR.

Put a can of duster spray (any computer or office supply handles different brands) in your kit as a basic.

For DRYOUTS, use acetone and then blow it out with the duster.

For CLEANOUTS, use naphtha for old damages, denatured alcohol for newer ones and again blow out with duster.

The duster also blows out loose particles of glass and micro particles of stone or gravel.

I prefer the Desertstars brand of duster spray.

It's filled with hot air.

But, it works for me.

[Delta Kits]

Once again, regarding using alcohol to dry or clean breaks.

Alcohol is used in the windshield manufacturing process to melt the laminate, and should never be introducted into a break. This comes up from time to time, and other manufacturers sell "dryout solution" that includes alcohol.

Take your practice piece of glass, expose some laminate, and pour alcohol on it to see for yourself.

[desertstars]

Ah, and a good point, Jeff.

Of course, you are talking about damage that has ALREADY extended to the depth of the laminate otherwise the laminate isn't "exposed" in the first place and it never even gets a whiff of the alcohol.

A "teetotaling" break so to speak.

Leaving aside for the moment the question of laminate inspiration of contaminates, isn't the laminate directly beneath the damage ALREADY possibly contaminated at this point if it is exposed?

(Inspiration for those not familiar is the same thing that happens when we take the corner of a napkin and push it into a spill of liquid on a tabletop. The liquid is "inspirated" into the napkin. Degree of inspiration relates to density to put it fairly simply.)

Again, a certain amount of subtlety enters into this picture and that degree is measured by experience.

Surely I wouldn't pour alcohol directly on a piece of laminate anymore than I would sprinkle salt on an exposed wound.

On the other hand, how many repairs do we do that have already reached the depth of the laminate and if that is the case the laminate is already contaminated.

Which again brings up the question of inspiration or rather the dog biting its' tail.

And the drill or don't drill controversy.

I drill almost every repair two thirds or less into the damaged area after cleaning the surface area FIRST with my aforementioned chemicals including scraping with a probe.

I'm intrigued.

Just how MUCH alcohol could one pour INTO a hole on a vertical glass surface if one tried?

Ignoring inspiration for the moment.

[glassdoctor]

The doctor doesn't care

So that's not refering to me?

Hee hee... btw, do we really need to go into the alcohol thing again? We do? ok, ummm....

The average joe rock chip technicly does extend to the laminate... anything that can be "daisyed" means it's at the laminate, and I'm pretty sure I can daisy any breaks you can show me if I try hard enough.

So, the alcohol does touch the pvb, BUT... personally I believe the damaging effects/consequences of a drop of alcohol in the break is way over-hyped. I have used alcohol many times over the years, and the only effects I have seen is that it creates a bit of a "daisy", but otherwise the repairs look fine and I have yet to find a problem long term... failure, etc...

So I am not condoning using it or denying that it does soften/attack pvb, but I do believe it's not the monster it's portrayed as, and that it's much better than working with moisture in the break.

BTW, acetone leaves an even worse "instant daisy" on the laminate...

Is there any flash-dry chemical that is accepted by the industry? Surely there has to be SOMETHING that doesn't destroy the mighty PVB!!??

[desertstars]

Well, glassdoctor.

It wasn't referring to you specifically but now that I think about it, I MIGHT have been.

Interesting thread.

Are you QUITE sure that a windshield chip extends into the laminate in most cases?

Or does it not?

(Why drill, otherwise?)

I explain to my customers that a laminated w/s is like a ham sandwich.

Two pieces of bread with a thin slice of ham between.

In reality, it is a bit more complex as any repair technician understands the first time they drill.

Drill hard into powder, drill through powder into hard, drill through hard into laminate. drill through laminate into hard, drill through powder into hard. Drill into the interior of the vehicle.

At that point, kiss the repair goodbye for lack of suction and pressure.

We operate between the first piece of laminated glass which continues NO further than to or into the laminate itself.

Any deeper than that limits our area of expertise at this stage of the game.

What kind of a repair are we looking at?

Depends on force, trajectory, size of propelled objects and a bunch of other variables.

But, most of them hardly ever slam into the ham.

I think, anyway.

So, cleaning a break with alcohol isn't going to turn a porker into a drunk or even a social drinker in my estimation.

I could be wrong, of course.

[Igotskills]

Jeff is right , when we cut a piece of 030 or laminated glass after we score both sides and crack the glass on the score marks we still need to seperate it from the laminate. We use alcohol to melt it away the results are a nice clean edge,.

[DaveC]

. . .
I explain to my customers that a laminated w/s is like a ham sandwich.

Two pieces of bread with a thin slice of ham between. . . .

So Desert,

Do you explain the scarring and any daisy effect as the mayonaise;)?