Alice Through the Looking Glass

Post your windshield repair tips, questions, advice! Note there is a sub-forum specifically for business development questions.
victoria wilson

Post by victoria wilson »

Subject: Alice Through the Looking Glass

Due to a set of unfortunate circumstances, I am now in a position where I need to learn all I never wanted to know about windshield repair ASAP. What a buried treasure I found when I dug this forum up from the web.

I have been perusing the site silently for about a week and would like to begin by thanking both the host and all the veteran wsr folk for the gold nuggets of insight and jewels of wisdom so kindly shared.

I have taken prodigious notes, have smiled and have even lol at some of the playful repartee. But it seems the more I learn, the more confused I become. Many many questions, but I
Delta Kits
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Post by Delta Kits »

Welcome to the forum Victoria!

Curing under pressure does NOT ruin the injector. Typically though, if you have to cure under pressure, it's because the break was not filled properly.

When you cure under pressure, the glass is not at it's relaxed state while curing. When you remove the pressure, the glass wants to flex back to it's relaxed state, and the only thing stopping it is your resin. This makes it more likely that a crack, or star break, could continue to crack out.

The risk, in my opinion, is too great to just try to solve pit resin air bubbles, and resin running out, which are easily fixable by other means that do not have these risks.
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Dave M
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Post by Dave M »

Oh no! Does this mean that the 17,000 plus windshields that I have repaired, curing under pressure, were not filled properly?
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Post by Delta Kits »

Dave M wrote:Does this mean that the 17,000 plus windshields that I have repaired, curing under pressure, were not filled properly?
No Dave, it just means you didn't fully read my post.

I said if you have to cure under pressure, it's typically because the break was not filled properly.

I did NOT say that curing under pressure causes chips to not fill.
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ChipDoctor

Post by ChipDoctor »

Sorry Jeff,

I'll have to respectfully disagree with your response.

One of the many reasons to become certified in windshield repair is the knowledge gained by studying the test prep materials supplied by the NGA.

According to their information, all resins shrink approximately 10% in volume during the curing process. Assuming this to be true, many poor repairs are caused by the simple shrinkage of resin during the curing process.

All of our repairs are cured under pressure and the quailty of 99.9% of them is world class.

Regards,

Mike Burstein
Dominion Windshield Repair Inc
http://www.ChipDr.com
victoria wilson

Filling Under Pressure

Post by victoria wilson »

Delta Kits wrote:Welcome to the forum Victoria!


The risk, in my opinion, is too great to just try to solve pit resin air bubbles, and resin running out, which are easily fixable by other means that do not have these risks.
Thank you so much for a timely read and reply. Am I takin advantage by following up with "What, pray tell may these other means be?" I have used your "search" and no matter how I seem to narrow down the subject am comig up with 360+ posts to wade through - few of which as yet have addressed the quesiton of avoiding or removing air bubbles that occur at the point between fill and cure tab.

Also, I surely don't want to be the newbie who overstayed her welcome and wondered how many and how often one may pose questions without incurring the wrath of the veterans? Don't want to jeapordize being able to utilize this wonderful forum.

Again, thank you.

Victoria
Delta Kits
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Post by Delta Kits »

Mike,

I have no problem with differences in opinion! :)

I'm sure the repairs you do are, as you said, word class.

Based on what you said though, you imply that in order to get a flush repair (which we all would agree is a primary goal, I assume), you must cure under pressure because of the "10%" shrinkage.

This is simply not true.

I think you'll find a very large number of repair technicians who do NOT cure under pressure that can make repairs perfectly flush with the windshield.

How can you make a repair flush with the windshield if the reason is shrinking?

You simply follow the instruction manual of your system, and add a "hump" of pit resin before applying your curing tab/tape. When you do that, it acts much the same as curing under pressure in that regard. Any shrinkage is taken care of because it pulls resin from the excess on top of the windshield. You then scrape it flat.

Again, many technicians cure under pressure. Most have great success with it.

All things being equal though, it is better to have a windshield cured when it's not under abnormal stress.

The debate about curing under pressure could go on and on. Mike & Dave, you guys aren't the first people i've debated this with. You have your opinions, i'm sure you do great repairs, but we feel that it inherently has more risk to cure under pressure, and is unnecessary.

What I don't want to see is new technicians read these threads, who may be having problems with their results. They see this and say, "well, that must be because i'm not curing under pressure," and proceed to do that from then on, when it is almost always a very simple thing they are doing wrong.

In other words, for new people, make sure all your basics are being done correctly, talk to tech support, and if you're still having troubles, THEN play with some of the theories in these forums.
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Please send me a copy of your invoice win-1.

Post by Dave M »

My reason or reasons for curing under pressure have nothing to do with making the repair flush with the surface.
Maybe the term "curing under pressure" is being misunderstood! I cure under pressure from both sides of my injector for 1 minute each. After removing my injector and carefully wiping excess resin from around the repair I cure the untabbed repair for about 30 seconds. This step seems to eliminate bubbles in the finished repair. I than scrape away that excess resin and apply a drop of pit resin/tab and cure for 2-3 minutes.
My take on "curing under pressure" is this........while in the final pressure cycle (after the break is completely full of resin) the resin is being forced to the very tip of the brake. Now is the time to do the 1 minute cure from both sides of the injector. Any shrinkage now should be minimal due to the pressure of the resin. Once the injector is removed and pressure is lost any loss of resin from the tip or edges of the break will be almost null because the hardening process of the resin has already started.
My final step with the pit resin has always made for a flush result.
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SuperGlass Franchise Versus Kits Only?? Help!

Post by Delta Kits »

victoria wilson wrote:Am I takin advantage by following up with "What, pray tell may these other means be?" I have used your "search" and no matter how I seem to narrow down the subject am comig up with 360+ posts to wade through - few of which as yet have addressed the quesiton of avoiding or removing air bubbles that occur at the point between fill and cure tab.
Victoria,

No problem, keep asking until you get the answers you need!

There are a couple different types of bubbles in repairs.

1st is a bubble in the break itself. This is simply an air pocket in the break, and can be caused by any number of things.

What we're talking about here though, is typically bubbles in the pit resin. This can be caused by a delay in applying pit resin after removing the bridge. You want to remove your bridge, and immediately add pit resin. No need to wipe off the windshield, that sort of thing. The other cause is aerated pit resin. Essentially, the pit resin is thick, so you can create air bubbles in the pit resin itself by shaking it. We recommend storing your pit resin upside down in the kit (with the lid on tightly of course ;)), and when needed, pull it out and unscrew the cap while the pit resin bottle is upside down. This reduces the chances of aerating that resin.
Delta Kits, Inc.
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Post by glassdoctor »

I've got Jeff's back on this one.

As I believe was stated, the "magic" bubble is not related to curing under pressure. The two are completely separate issues.

Let me be the one to make peace with the pressure cure debate (if possible :cry: )...

It's obvious that excellent, world class, top notch, textbook perfect.... repairs can be done with pressure curing or without. There are experienced techs on both sides who have done many thousands of repairs "their way" and apparently it works for both sides.

I have done countless thousands myself without pressure curing. I have done pressure curing and have nothing against it if someone is getting good results. And I would concede that there are times when curing under pressure is a very good thing, to quote jailbird Martha.

Now to break the peace, a little... it's incorrect to state that a repair must be pressure cured in order to be properly or 100% repaired. If that's the consensus of the nwra or nga or whoever, then that's too bad... they're wrong. There is overwhelming evidence to support the fact that it is not a neccessity.

Resin shrinkage during cure is good technospeak to back up pressure curing advocates, in theory. But in reality it's just not an issue.

There are pros and cons with both methods of curing. There are two ways to do it but neither is "wrong".

Victoria, hope all goes well for you. Keep asking and you shall recieve... if not answers, then at least entertainment. :wink:

Oh, btw if it wasn't directly answered yet, pressure curing will not cure or "ruin" what resin is in the injector. IMO that's irrelevant thoughbecause I don't recomend "recycling" resin for use in another repair. Does this injector trap the unused resin be design?
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