Resins??
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Anonymous
Re: risers and divers
I recently just tried the Delta resins, and I didn't have too much luck with them, was it just me or anyone else ever see this problem? They almost seemed too thin, I tried the Premium and Mangibond, thye filled in, all the way to the edges, but didn't clear it up nearly as well, as my Janvil Star resin. The Janvil's a tiny bit thicker, it fills to the edges, but seems to clear repairs better than the Delta resins. I know delta makes high quality stuff, anyone else ever experience this?
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Anonymous
Delta Resins
I had done the same, I found both of the delta resins to fill to the ends quicker, but the Janvil resins to clear up more.
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Anonymous
resin
chiprfixr,
I use the DELTA KITS premium bond resin and to date I have not had one repair fail or not clear up to my expectations. For what it is worth, as an aircraft technician my standards and expectations are very high. The appearance can and will vary with any number of given variables we face with each repair..Age, Contamination etc. These factors, a resin by itself cannot overcome. Whoever the manufacturer.
If I may suggest, in addition to just requesting sample resins, also ask to have included the Technical Specification Sheets for each resin. If they will supply it. If they don't have them or wont supply them...well for me that would raise a flag of concern. What these sheets will do is allow you to compare controlled lab test results/ resin specs for each resin and give you a true base line. Real world results may vary slightly though due lack of controls. If you just do your own evaluations make sure all things are equal for all resins tested. This will produce fair comparisons.
One last thing and I might be wrong here, I don't believe any tooling suppliers make their own resins on site. They are suppliers not manufacturers as this would not be cost effective. They outsource a chemical company who specializes in resins specifically acrylics produce their own proprietary formulation/s or worse just use and repackage this chemical company's own industry universal formulation.
If I am wrong on this, I welcome the knowledge and stand corrected.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
I use the DELTA KITS premium bond resin and to date I have not had one repair fail or not clear up to my expectations. For what it is worth, as an aircraft technician my standards and expectations are very high. The appearance can and will vary with any number of given variables we face with each repair..Age, Contamination etc. These factors, a resin by itself cannot overcome. Whoever the manufacturer.
If I may suggest, in addition to just requesting sample resins, also ask to have included the Technical Specification Sheets for each resin. If they will supply it. If they don't have them or wont supply them...well for me that would raise a flag of concern. What these sheets will do is allow you to compare controlled lab test results/ resin specs for each resin and give you a true base line. Real world results may vary slightly though due lack of controls. If you just do your own evaluations make sure all things are equal for all resins tested. This will produce fair comparisons.
One last thing and I might be wrong here, I don't believe any tooling suppliers make their own resins on site. They are suppliers not manufacturers as this would not be cost effective. They outsource a chemical company who specializes in resins specifically acrylics produce their own proprietary formulation/s or worse just use and repackage this chemical company's own industry universal formulation.
If I am wrong on this, I welcome the knowledge and stand corrected.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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Anonymous
Re: resin
Sorry All,
Just something to think about...
If I was to play an audio sample on the same type of media from 3 leading manufacturers Memorex,Maxell,TDK I don't think anyone could tell me consistently what company was being used. Thats how good they all are. It would take there tech. specs to help you make your choice and even at that they are all top quality.
Well, I truly believe the top resin suppliers fall into this analogy as well and the specs are more critical in the decision process due to the safety component involved.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
Just something to think about...
If I was to play an audio sample on the same type of media from 3 leading manufacturers Memorex,Maxell,TDK I don't think anyone could tell me consistently what company was being used. Thats how good they all are. It would take there tech. specs to help you make your choice and even at that they are all top quality.
Well, I truly believe the top resin suppliers fall into this analogy as well and the specs are more critical in the decision process due to the safety component involved.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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Anonymous
resins
While I must be very careful in my wording not to badmouth any companies resins. I will tell you this. There are (2) two major manufacturers in the U.S., that sell to almost every supplier on the market. Not saying they (the resins) are all the same, but the base is the same. Some have more curing agents, less thinners, more adhesive additives etc. But almost all the resins offered in the U.S. come from one of these two manufacturers. I would strongly suggest that you request and try samples from all companies that you can. Base your decision on your results. The tech spec sheet, unless you are an analytical engineer is useless to you. The so called lab tests, unless having beendone by a certified ASTM lab means very little. Any independant company and or person can hire a lab to test, but for comparisons sake, what have you found out? And although that independant lab gave that particular companies resin a two thumbs up, does it prove that there aren't better,faster, clearer resins available? Just my thoughts.
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Anonymous
re: resins
Glassdoc,
While I agree with you, I also disagree with you. True, just like tires there are only a few that produce all brands. I also agree that we should evaluate as many resins as possible. I also agree that to fully understand the how and why as well as theory behind the resins and tests is not needed for our end result purposes.
Where I do disagree though is that the tech. spec. sheets are useless. As I posted earlier this would give the technician a base line to start from. This won't give you real world results but it will supply you with resin characteristics. Each supplier should have one for their proprietary formulations. Some of the information that I think is important to us as technicians that can be acquired from the tech specs. are: Viscosity, Refractive Index, Adhesive Sheer Strength, Tensile Strength, Temp. Specifications, Elasticity, Elongation, Linear Shrinkage and Shore Hardness.
This type information is geared more towards the functionality of the resin which is what I and I think we all should be concerned with foremost. This will define how well the resin will preform which is directly related to safety.
I would like to believe that the top resin suppliers are just as concerned with the products that they are paying to have produced as well as putting there reputation on line by ultimately selling them to you and I are having periodic quality assurance tests done by the manufacturer to ensure product quality. The manufacturers should also be adhering to the GMP (Good Manufacturing Procedures). Sure any company could have bogus information to hand you and I but I think what they would be supplying to you and I is the specs from the manufacturer that were done on their specific formulation. Fraudulent information would come with some hefty legalities.
If you are primarily concerned with appearance characteristics foremost, then granted this info is not the same as field testing but it is a baseline to go on for the new to the business or anyone who does not want to wait for few months to see if the resin yellows or repairs aren't holding or what ever criteria they have might be.
I honestly feel that between the top suppliers there will not be that big of a difference in appearance overall but there might be in how well the resin does its primary job, BONDING.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
While I agree with you, I also disagree with you. True, just like tires there are only a few that produce all brands. I also agree that we should evaluate as many resins as possible. I also agree that to fully understand the how and why as well as theory behind the resins and tests is not needed for our end result purposes.
Where I do disagree though is that the tech. spec. sheets are useless. As I posted earlier this would give the technician a base line to start from. This won't give you real world results but it will supply you with resin characteristics. Each supplier should have one for their proprietary formulations. Some of the information that I think is important to us as technicians that can be acquired from the tech specs. are: Viscosity, Refractive Index, Adhesive Sheer Strength, Tensile Strength, Temp. Specifications, Elasticity, Elongation, Linear Shrinkage and Shore Hardness.
This type information is geared more towards the functionality of the resin which is what I and I think we all should be concerned with foremost. This will define how well the resin will preform which is directly related to safety.
I would like to believe that the top resin suppliers are just as concerned with the products that they are paying to have produced as well as putting there reputation on line by ultimately selling them to you and I are having periodic quality assurance tests done by the manufacturer to ensure product quality. The manufacturers should also be adhering to the GMP (Good Manufacturing Procedures). Sure any company could have bogus information to hand you and I but I think what they would be supplying to you and I is the specs from the manufacturer that were done on their specific formulation. Fraudulent information would come with some hefty legalities.
If you are primarily concerned with appearance characteristics foremost, then granted this info is not the same as field testing but it is a baseline to go on for the new to the business or anyone who does not want to wait for few months to see if the resin yellows or repairs aren't holding or what ever criteria they have might be.
I honestly feel that between the top suppliers there will not be that big of a difference in appearance overall but there might be in how well the resin does its primary job, BONDING.
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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Anonymous
Re: re: resins
Brian, while basically everything you stated is true.
Most (field) techs have the time or the background to know
if the specs are good information or merely mumbo jumbo, hype. Thats why these forums are so very important to ALL of us. Information.. I'm not saying you slam a roduct because you don't like the color of the label, but if you have a number of failures and know in theory you did evreything right, then post a comment. Could be someone else is having the same problems. Which could be, product error, not user error. I firmly believe, if anyone out there contacts a minimum of 7 suppliers, and try the resins in all types of shots, go back in a week and look at the repair, give it another week and look again. You'll make up your mind on ease of use, clarity,and strength.. If you are comfortable with standing behind your work, fine.. Because none of the suppliers, I repeat, NONE of the suppliers will stand behind your work. Some offer satisfaction guarantee, thats great, but if your not happy, do you believe your customer will be..? Tech specs are a great concept... ON PAPER>>
Most (field) techs have the time or the background to know
if the specs are good information or merely mumbo jumbo, hype. Thats why these forums are so very important to ALL of us. Information.. I'm not saying you slam a roduct because you don't like the color of the label, but if you have a number of failures and know in theory you did evreything right, then post a comment. Could be someone else is having the same problems. Which could be, product error, not user error. I firmly believe, if anyone out there contacts a minimum of 7 suppliers, and try the resins in all types of shots, go back in a week and look at the repair, give it another week and look again. You'll make up your mind on ease of use, clarity,and strength.. If you are comfortable with standing behind your work, fine.. Because none of the suppliers, I repeat, NONE of the suppliers will stand behind your work. Some offer satisfaction guarantee, thats great, but if your not happy, do you believe your customer will be..? Tech specs are a great concept... ON PAPER>>
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Anonymous
re: resin
Glassdoc,
Once again, while I agree with you, I also disagree with you.
For the most part, a good majority of people posting on the forums are just researching to get started or have just started and these techs.. sure they have time to figure it out on their own but do they want the hassle or can they afford to. Most want to get started feeling that they have purchased what will do the best repairs for them wether it's brand A or brand B. Every brand has unsatisfied customers and satisfied customers.
Let's use this 2 week example you bring up in your previous post. If you are referring to a piece of practice glass where you will have the most control over the tests, then ease of use would be determined immediately, strength would never be determined because we could never reproduce the flexing and stress's exerted on a windshield from a vehicle in motion. As for yellowing of the resin well it will take longer than two weeks to see this type of deterioration from a top supplier at least in my part of the country.
Now lets look at this example on a customers vehicle. We will never get an accurate standard from resin to resin due to not being able to reproduce the exact conditions since each break is unique and the variables will aslo be different from break to break. So it would never be fair. But lets go with it, Ease of resin use can be determined immediately, strength can be determined only in an undetermined amount of time since we can only speculate on something like that. But lets use one month as our standard...
Are you willing to have your customer driving around while you are testing the resin of brand A or B when we all no the potential for their safety could be at risk?
Do you let them know that you are not sure of the resin you are using and you are testing it?
Based on your post that the suppliers would never stand behind your work which I agree then why would you stand behind their resins through your testing phase and risk your business reputation?
and last in our second example, yellowing or optical deterioration of the resin, well it will take longer than two weeks to see this type of deterioration from a top supplier at least in my part of the country.
You mention if your not happy then will your customer wont be and I agree with you
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
Once again, while I agree with you, I also disagree with you.
For the most part, a good majority of people posting on the forums are just researching to get started or have just started and these techs.. sure they have time to figure it out on their own but do they want the hassle or can they afford to. Most want to get started feeling that they have purchased what will do the best repairs for them wether it's brand A or brand B. Every brand has unsatisfied customers and satisfied customers.
Let's use this 2 week example you bring up in your previous post. If you are referring to a piece of practice glass where you will have the most control over the tests, then ease of use would be determined immediately, strength would never be determined because we could never reproduce the flexing and stress's exerted on a windshield from a vehicle in motion. As for yellowing of the resin well it will take longer than two weeks to see this type of deterioration from a top supplier at least in my part of the country.
Now lets look at this example on a customers vehicle. We will never get an accurate standard from resin to resin due to not being able to reproduce the exact conditions since each break is unique and the variables will aslo be different from break to break. So it would never be fair. But lets go with it, Ease of resin use can be determined immediately, strength can be determined only in an undetermined amount of time since we can only speculate on something like that. But lets use one month as our standard...
Are you willing to have your customer driving around while you are testing the resin of brand A or B when we all no the potential for their safety could be at risk?
Do you let them know that you are not sure of the resin you are using and you are testing it?
Based on your post that the suppliers would never stand behind your work which I agree then why would you stand behind their resins through your testing phase and risk your business reputation?
and last in our second example, yellowing or optical deterioration of the resin, well it will take longer than two weeks to see this type of deterioration from a top supplier at least in my part of the country.
You mention if your not happy then will your customer wont be and I agree with you
Pay it foward,
Brian
www.safeglasstechnologies.com
[email]"info@safeglasstechnologies.com"[/email][/email]
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